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No way. Everyone knows real web designers use linux. Macs are for easily distracted people who like shiny white boxes, and have too much money.
Well said, Kevin!
And what’s this (pirated) photoshop nonsense? Real web designers use GIMP!
+1 to that!
+1 this chart fails
+1 Agreed
give me back my time, who ever made this should be shot out of their bedroom window into the path of a speeding truck. knob heads
I use Picture Publisher myself…
+1 to both of you. who made this graph anyway?
Yes, the Mac Mini costs $599 which is clearly an outrageous price for a computer. Nobody can afford $599. Ever. Obviously.
People with $599 should all be shot and killed since they clearly don’t know the value of a dollar and are dragging society down with them. Don’t they know that NOTHING is more expensive than $599? How can they live with themselves, the ignorant bastards?
Don’t be ignorant… the Mac Mini is the only computer Apple sells thats less than $1000. The Mac Pro is configurable to be over $15,000, which at that price its probably more effective to buy a server farm.
Not to mention the fact you can get twice the specs on a windows machine for $1000 than you could on a Mac. Or alternatively, you could buy the parts yourself, and install a Linux distro for very cheap.
So yes, $599 isn’t too ridiculous for a Mac, but like I said, its the only one that costs less than a grand.
because free is the same as very cheap
You mean besides the $999 Macbook, right? No, see, the point was that when people say things like “Macs are for people with too much money”, they’re wrong.
Unless you are prepared to tell me how $599 is “too much money” for a computer. Are you prepared to do that, rather than calling me ignorant? No, of course you aren’t. Nice try at defending his idiotic statement though.
Oh you can configure a Mac Pro to up to $15k? Wow! I can configure a Dell to go way past $20k. So what was your point again? You’re an idiot? Right, that’s what I thought.
Enjoy your $999 macbook
I’m just going to sit over here with my Envy 14″ that has a better graphics card, faster processor, more memory, brighter screen, removable battery, and equivalent multi-touch track-pad. My envy was $1400, an equivalent mac would be over $2,149
I’m glad someone understands something.
Yes, and you can buy a comparable PC for $299…
Agree’d, Macs are for non gamers with to much $$$
right, because $599 is “too much $$$” for a computer?
Oh but wait – then why are so many Dells and HPs over $2,000? If $599 is “too much”, what does that make those $2000 PC? What about the $1500 PCs? What about the $1000 PCs? They’re all more than a Mac, so I guess just about every PC is also “too much $$$”. Right?
It’s not too much, the mac mini is just a pile of S***.
Oh yes, seeing as how you are somebody who hates Apple products I give your obviously carefully thought out and objective opinion all the credence in the world.
Yeah, no, you’re a dumbass. But thanks for supporting my point anyway.
its too much money for what you are paying for. $700 is a high premium for a pile a dookie
If you even looked at the specs for the Mac Mini, you’d notice you’re paying $699 for a below average processor, 2GB of ram, a small amount of HDD space and a basically nonexistent graphics card. Sure, you don’t get any “bang-for-the-buck” but at least its a Mac.
Translation for all the Mac Fanboys: Expensive and no worth it. A PC does much more than any Mac can do.
Hi, I’m a PC and you’re a mac. (shows the characters standing next to each other) Who’d you hire.. guy in the buisness attire (PC) or the guy who resembles your deadbeat friend who crashes on your couch (Mac)
from what i gather
the penguin
im easily distracted.sometimes. and i like shiny white boxes, but i dont hve a mac or alot of money. dell
I have what it takes to be FIRST!
DAMN…
Hey, buddy. There has to be ABSOLUTELY NO COMMENTS, or you don’t. Sorry, but you just didn’t make the cut. And I have a graph that is about as complicated as this one. You can click my name to see it.
no sir, you do not
Not according to my clock.
Why does it matter if the chart uses a non-websafe font? It’s clearly a bitmapped image file.
Very true. Not to mention websafe hasn’t been relevant for years.
Shows anal retentiveness.
While it may be a bitmap image, I think the point was noticing what the font was, and mentally checking it against what is a web safe font subconsciously. >.>
Actually, I’m pretty sure png is a vector format.
png is raster. The most common vector image format on the web now is .svg, and even that is rarely used. I only see it used on wikipedia. People might call eps or pdf vector image formats, but they’re more document formats, not image formats.
I know many web designers. Almost none of them use Macs.
Macs are for the shiny toy crowd, not for people who need to get real work done.
I get the feeling that the creator was thinking specifically of graphic designers… well, if knowing HTML is his standard for being a successful web designer, then there’s DEFINITELY some confusion going on there. o_O
Sure, which is why the studio full of people I have working are not getting any work done. Because they use Macs.
Oh wait no, they’re getting an absolute buttload of work done. Because they’re using Macs. Funny how facts work, isn’t it?
How is that a fact?
It’s something which is seen to be true, so it’s a fact. It’s also a fact that it’s a fact. Fact.
It’s a true statement, which = a fact. Is there something you don’t understand about that? Do you need to borrow a dictionary?
The studio I was with got a buttload of work done, on PCs.
Why are your studios filling butts?
Good for you. I was addressing the above statement that said Macs are not for people who need to get work done, which is wrong. Here’s a cookie though.
I want proof
Using a Mac has never helped me accomplish anything. Ever. I’ll stick to computers that can actually be afforded, thanks.
You can’t afford $599 for a computer?
Nope.
well. first off… its $700
and second… I would much rather pay $300 for a computer than $700 for the same computer.
Macs are just oversided iPads with more features and a lack of touchness (far as I know)
So you’re admitting you’re ignorant about Macs, but then you’re making a grossly incorrect statement about them as if it were a fact? How is that supposed to work, exactly?
…because it IS fact. Apple does not have “touchscreen” computers. Note: iPods and iPads are NOT computers.
“iPods and iPads are NOT computers.”
Yes and no. They aren’t the same kind of computer as a Windows or Mac machine, and may not be the kind of computer you would want. However, it does satisfy the classic definition of a computer very well. Any smart phone right now, including current iOS devices, are far more powerful than the flight computer that took Buzz Aldrin to the Moon and back.
Heck, it’s trivial to make a computer with a microcontroller and an inch square of circuitry.
lol whoever made this graph is clearly an idiot.
agreeing…
Or a Mac user. Oh, sorry, lots of overlap there.
I think you mean Windows users. That’s why 90% of the market is Windows, Windows users are brainless sheep. They only use what everybody else is using because they can’t think for themselves.
You don’t really think people use Windows because it’s great, do you?
Yes. Yes we do. Because it is great. I prefer it greatly to Mac OS, which I’ve also used. I find it to be far more user-friendly, and, to all you people who complain about viruses, I have three words: QUALITY antivirus software.
To your three words, I have two in response:
ZERO VIRUSES.
As to the rest, You being unfamiliar with OS X doesn’t mean Windows is better. It means you have no idea how to use OS X, which is sad. And no, the vast majority of people who use Windows are only using it because other people are using it. Hence, sheep.
That’s called “security by obscurity”… no one writes those viruses because no one gives a s**t about OS X.
But they are out there… securemac.com/
And no one writes them for Linux because they’re busy writing Linux. XD
My only regrets with Linux (Ubuntu) are that the support is minimal and software is harder to find.
I dual-boot Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10.10… I get the best of both worlds.
OS X is prone to viruses too. Since you obviously didn’t know that or are refusing to accept that (along with many other facts), it is safe to say that everything you have said (and are about to say) is false as it comes from a delusional person.
And what do you call people that obsessively follow the Mac/Apple trend? Brainless sheep.
So your opinion is that people who use the computer that has 10% of the market are sheep? Do you just not understand what “sheep” means in this context? Actually why am I asking you, obviously you don’t. “Sheep” does not apply to the people who are using something only 10% of the market is using. That is the opposite of ‘sheep”.
Just because it’s a smaller herd does not mean they are not sheep.
win
There is a reason why PC’s are more popular than Macs.. cause if Macs were far superior most people would have them… OMG LOGIC!?! FFFFFUUUUU!!
So what you’re saying is PCs are superior because more people are using them? That must be why Toyota Camrys are superior to Ferrari 430s. Because more people own them.
Yeah, that’s some flawless logic you’re using there, sport. By the way, did you know cockroaches are far superior to humans? Because there are more of them? Yeah seriously, a guy called Raichu told me that’s how things work.
Agreed… post hoc ergo propter hoc. The Mac may be popular for reasons other than quality, including an expensive advertisement campaign.
More people own dogs than turtles, despite the fact that turtles have a life expectancy five times that of dogs, have a thick shell to protect them from predators, never shed fur, rarely run away, and, if female, lay many times more eggs per year than the average dog.
Apple spends less on their ad campaigns by a 5-to-one margin than Microsoft.
Apple spends all of its time slandering. 100% of its ad campaign is spent comparing itself to Windows.
At least window users can think their way around the idea of using two buttons instead of one.
Right, because the Mac hasn’t supported multibutton mice for 20 years. Oh wait, yes it has. You’re an idiot.
i stopped reading it because of the mac part… i think i lost the connection because they pushed the wrong spot in me…
You need to know a lot more than HTML, nowadays anyway.
True dat. You need knowledge of CSS, SQL, JAVA, FLASH, etc… The list goes on.
You don’t need to know Flash. You just need to know enough about it to string together a coherent argument about why you hate it and why your client should too.
I hate Flash because screen readers see it as a picture (in my early web design years I was dating a blind man).
A web designer don’t need to know html, css etc. The company i worked for got the designs from people who don’t know any of that stuff. We were the coders and made the .psd into a html page.
SiteGrinder?
websafe font? it looks like arial to me or one of those san serif ones. T
he client won’t notice ffs
Any competent web designer, graphic designer or any other creative type that lowers their prices to compete with someone’s twit nephew is wasting their time. Said twit would most often (though not always) be getting exactly what he/she deserves for going the nepotism route, some cheap hack work from someone whose main qualifications is being related to the person needing work done.
I think you can break down web designers into different groups.
1. Coders (people more interested in making functional websites)
2. Designers (people more interested in making pretty websites)
1. People who obey copyright laws
2. Those that don’t
1. Those that can afford expensive software
2. Those that cannot
1. People that work for free sometimes
2. People that don’t have to
1. People that only know html
2. People that know html and how to use flash
3. People that know how to use javascript
4. People that know javascript and css
5. People that know how to use a server side scripting language (php, asp, etc)
6. People that know how to use AJAX
7. People that know how to work with databases with SQL
The person who wrote this probably falls into 2,2,2,1,1
I’d call myself a 1,1,2,2,6
which is why I use linux and gimp, rather than a mac and photoshop
do you use Joe’s Discount Condoms too?
I agree.
I would be 1,1,1,2,(2+3+4+5+7)
I used Windows on a Clevo Metabox with Illustrator and notepad++
ah, but would you actually be a Web Designer or a Web Developer then? I think point one kinda changes the Job title slightly. ^_^
I run Corel on a Windows XP system where I do my design work… (I’d upgrade, but quite frankly, I’m not impressed with anything newer yet.) but work with a LAMP Server.
*shrugs* GIMP never impressed me as far as it’s user interface goes, and I’m willing to pay a modest amount (Corel’s Graphics Suite runs about a quarter as much as Adobe’s) for a graphics software with a built in emergency-save system and a solid interface after using photoshop on an old mac at a job and having it crash a good 3 times an hour.
1,2,2,1,(1,3,4,5,6,7)?
1,1,2,2+4+5+6 and 7 in the future.
Windows XP and Notepad++.
Paint.NET and sometimes Gimp.
Testing on IE, FF, Chrome and Opera.
And oh, Winamp always on.
I think I’m a 1/2 (who says it can’t be both?), 1, 2, 2, 2/4/5(if perl counts)
I love how defensive and angry Mac users get, and how much better and smarter they think they are.
It is all immaturity. I happen to use both Windows and OS X, they both have their frustrations and good points, it seems to be more a matter of preference. I don’t think one is necessarily much better for productivity than the other, and the maintenance difference might not even claim a difference of a tenth of a percent difference in availability, though I’ve found installing Windows to be a more precarious exercise sometimes, because of the license authentication scheme.
And that comment is supposed to show… what? Humility? No wait let me guess – you think you’re better and smarter than Mac users. Hypocrisy from an Apple hater, what a shock.
And this is coming from what is clearly a Windows hater. What a shock.
Seriously, what crawled in your ass and died? The differences between the capabilities of a Mac and PC are almost nil, whereas the price of a Mac is, on average, substantially higher.
And don’t give me the “$599 is too much for a computer?” crap. The Mini-mac book is the PC equivalent of a netbook, as in it can’t do s**t. Any “true” Mac book that any person would use will be more expensive than a PC of the same specs and capabilities.
diaf
This is stupid. In high school everyone was taught how to build their own website using a regular PC.
Not at my age they weren’t, and I’m not that old
Same. I’m in my mid-20′s, and the most advanced we ever got in high school was powerpoint.
Oregon Trail on old apple computers with green or amber graphics
Heh, in 5th grade our reward for good behavior was getting to play that on the teacher’s computer. By middle school, at least the graphics were in color, but I remember the teacher making a big deal about showing us how email worked, and the main thing I remember learning in that class is how to format a floppy disk.
I’ve seen my high school’s web class… their final test was composed of writing down what HTML tags to make 1. an ordered list, 2. an unordered list, 3. a table with two cells, etc. It’s s**t I could teach over a weekend and I’ve known since I was 10 or 11.
If you’re a web designer and/or programmer and you use a mac, you should be shot on site.
It’s “Shot on SIGHT”, dear PC user.
It’s a pun! C’mon, Mac user, shot on ‘site’ is clearly a clever allusion to website…
iPro fails at representing Mac community, or is it a WIN!?
My apologies, I meant sight.*
Sorry, jumped the gun.
But in all seriousness. Web designers don’t necessarily need a Mac. Anything would work, yes, I prefer Mac, but web design is what could be made on any computer with a freaking Notepad. Tony Stark made one sitting in a cave. WITHABOXOFSCRAPS!!!
The html and coding can be done in notepad. but designing can’t. are you have a very ugly website..
With CSS you can make a website look decent. I used to code everything in Notepad until I had to implement PHP and other stuff into my site, then it gets confusing so you need a better way to organize your codes.
A good designer can hold a layout design in his/her head. I’ve ‘designed’ in vi for years admittedly you need a graphics package for the actual graphics but layout? come on.
back in my 16 bit days I used to make graphics for games using dos-edit with a comma separated 16 or 256 colour array. if you can see it in your mind you dont need to see it on the screen, I was reminded the other day by an old collegue that my first 3d models were created in text co-ordinate by co-ordinate (admittedly the textures were edited in deluxe paint)
I’m sure there are people that don’t need a graphical program to do graphic design for computers, but that’s not what makes a graphic designer good. I’m sure some of the people that can do that aren’t good designers.
It takes a talent that can’t be defined as using a particularly specific kind of technology, the technology is a tool Which is why this Mac v. PC argument is silly, they’re equipment, not talent, once you can run the app reliably, the OS usually disappears from the list of things to worry about. No piece of equipment can give you talent, but the equipment can make it easier to apply that talent to a job in a more productive way.
Pen
and
Paper
?
I’ll have you know that an HTML website can be *quite* pleasing to the eye. Most people these days seem to believe firmly that if it’s not bogging your computer down with a trillion Flash ads and animations and dynamic content, then it’s not a proper website. Those people fail utterly.
This graph fails miserably
This graph, Pc’s and Macs should and will burn in a fiery smelly hell of hot plastic and with every crappy web designer
Gosh, Mac boys are just annoying. If you love your macs, just keep it to yourself. Nobody else cares.
Macs? lol. Someone gets easily persuaded. Didnt know web designers needed macs to type text, lulzor. What a fail.
It’s a proven fact, web designers fingers actually go on fire if they try and type on a keyboard that doesn’t have a mac sign on it.
Wow, this is some pretty invisible fire! And unhot, too!
Anyone who brings “MY OS IS BETTER THAN YOUR OS” in things like web design need to be shot on sight. Any OS with a decent plaintext editor (even third-party – you can download a bunch of good ones for Windows, Notepad’s just meh) is good for web design. And Photoshoop exists for Windows as well as OS X. Not for Linux, I don’t think, but GIMP is awesome.
Also, while you DO need HTML, you also need to know PHP. And CSS. A little JavaScript wouldn’t hurt.
I agree completely with the hate IE bit.
And the websafe font thing can be developed.
well, to be fair mac is good, but seriously, mac fanatics are just as annoying as religious fanatics
would that be Scientology….
I can’t decide which one of all of these charts are the worst. Totally not funny at all.
Did you notice that this flowchat was an image so the font doesn’t even matter?
Do you own Photoshop? –no–> Steal it. —-> 20 years in prison. —-> ??? —-> Profit.
Also, exactly what part of web design requires using a Mac?
The chance of going to prison for 20 years for pirating one copy of Photoshop is about nil. You might have to pay 10x the value of the software if convicted, but I don’t think individual pirates have done hard time unless they actively redistribute illegal copies, even then, it’s usually just a huge fine, not time.
That’s a good point… 20 years is the figure that came up when I searched for the sentence for a case of software piracy, but that obviously came up because it was news.
CS5 Production: $1,700; *10=$17,000.
PS Elements 7: $42.99.
I should hardly think that piracy is a good substitute for the newest version when older and watered-down versions can be bought legally for less than a week’s pay (assuming you’re any good at web design in the first place.) If you’re only just now getting it, pirated or otherwise, you won’t be good enough with it the moment you get it for it to make much of a difference… you might as well wait until you can afford your own software so that your business is built on a legal foundation.
GIMP: $0
Notepad: $0
Google Chrome: $0
The above programs being all I really need: Priceless.
Then you obviously aren’t hardcore.
How do you open powerpoint docs? How do you compile programs? How do you view flash files?
When you say those are the only programs you need, you mean those are the only ADDITIONAL programs you need – you have a pre-packaged set of programs that come with the OS you bought.
Also: GIMP is terrible compared to Photoshop, even old versions. I have and use both. Photoshop is quite a few notches above.
Also: switch to Notepad++.
PowerPoint is handy but not necessary. I don’t program, so I don’t need a compiler. Flash is also not necessary.
So no, those are not the only “additional” programs I need. I have built quite a few sites with just those.
Also: Having actually used both, I prefer GIMP.
Also: Nah, I’m good.
Your future employers may require you to open certain files. It’s not a question of whether or not you like them or not. If the meeting minutes are in .ppt, .docx, etc., you’d better be able to open them.
Hit ctrl+alt+delete and go to the processes tab to see what programs you’re using. You’re using a lot more than the ones you mentioned.
Do you use your computer to game? To write novels? To paint? I use mine primarily to program, web browsing aside. We probably have totally different priorities. It’s quite possible that you really only do use a couple of freeware programs on an otherwise out-of-the-box computer, but in that case, chances are you’ve paid too much.
I was keeping with the topic of web design. Of course I have other programs, but I don’t use them for creating web sites, and if I do, I don’t actually NEED to.
I’m surprised you aren’t using Notepad++, then. They have syntax highlighting and better file handling than regular old Notepad.
I don’t suppose you also use an FTP program?
Another useful one I use for web design is a color wheel program – it can give you complimentary/supplementary colors to any value you choose. (Select a color and a mode – it can give you 2,3,4… colors that act with it, contrast it, whatever.) I don’t have it on this computer, I don’t remember what the name of it was, but it makes my life a lot easier.
…and it’s good for color-blind people, ironically.
What languages do you use? I use PHP to generate HTML/CSS primarily because it allows includes, but operates on the server side, so it never has a conflict with the user’s browser. I wish more people allowed Javascript… styling with Javascript is easier on the server and typically nicer to look at.
For FTP when I need it, I use FileZilla.
Don’t need a program for colors; I just use math, my eyes, or WolframAlpha.
And for languages, I just use HTML and CSS directly.
MACS SUCK. You can get TWICE the power for HALF the price if you buy a PC. I am forced to use a mac at my job and I hate it so much. They are slow and whoever designed the interface was on acid. And Jobs is an ass.
not a total douche who buys a Mac for only one feature? yep
Ridículo! Neste post da a entender se a pessoa não utilizar um Mac não pode ser um webdesigner. Então quer dizer que o talento e conhecimento da pessoa não vale nada? Conheço muitos “designers” que tem um Mac e o trabalho deles é uma porcaria!
I particularly find web design to be pretty boring, so I respect and admire whoever has the patience for it.
Many (if not all) of the people who are PC users on this list are not the target market by Apple for their Mac products. I wonder how many of them have an iPhone in their pocket, too?
PC use (and adoption) is a complex issue, and to see the blanket statements people are making is pretty ridiculous. Use what you want, but I would venture to say that the great majority of web designers are increasingly using Macs.
To add one quick comment, there is value is not managing the maintenance of a Mac. The amount of time I have to either wait for my computer, update my virus definitions, defrag my hard drive, etc., is incredibly minimal (if nonexistent) with a Mac. Essentially, I pay for that time and freedom. Therefore, I’m willing to pay that premium.
Not to mention I feel safer with my kids using my Mac than any PC I would ever have in my home.
You do understand that PC != Windows right?
defrag indeed *pfft* Like I’ve had to do that at all in the last ten years.
and as for anti-virus, the last douche that tried to sell me any of that probably understood as much about the concept of other operating systems as you do.
sheesh
For most intents and purposes, a “PC” was an IBM model name that eventially morphed into something that most people means a computer running Windows.
People can get pedantic about it, but most people don’t care about it to the degree that you do. It’s akin to worrying about what refrigerant compound your freezer uses, they don’t care as long as the freezer does the job.
I always find the class war between Mac and PC to be interesting. As for design, I’ve always thought that graphic design goes a little more smoothly on a Mac while web design is better done on a PC (since IE is a bit of a thorn in the side). Starting off, use what you can get your hands on (even if that is only a $5 sketchbook and a pencil) and with a lot of hard work and some talent, eventually price and OS will become moot points.
Oh, and I have nothing bad to say about GIMP, unless you have to interface with print shops for graphic design. A lot of them don’t know the ways of the GIMP
macs suck
Do you know HTML–>No–>WTF REALLY–>No(so they know HTML)–> welcome to the internet grandma
hmm so here comes the question if your grandma knows html cuz mine doesnt
That just means my grandmother is l33ter than yours.
Seriously, though, Mac? WTF? Enjoy your $10,000 media box, I can actually replace a part in my computer. Whoever made this graph is obviously not a professional.
How nice of you to wave your grandmother’s penis about. Whatever.