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First to rate. ;D
Great.. another one of these types of graphs. This sentiment is why we have to either import so many of our good scientists and engineers or give up on the one thing we actually still contribute to the world: RD.
Seconded
thirded. I am a land surveyor and I use more calculus and trigonometry than you could shake an un-educated mcdonald’s french fry at.
They don’t educate the fries last time I checked.
I guess I agree.
I guess you work at McDonald’s.
*Beep, beep!* Outta mah way! I work at McDonalds!!
With that job, I doubt you have a vehicle that beeps. Or one at all.
I need to read graphs too. Well, at least to enjoy this site
I disagree, and at the same time I don’t. While it’s true you don’t necessarily NEED to know any math they teach you in high school to get through your day, I find myself using it every day. Everything from algebra to pre-cal. I don’t really use calculus in everyday math, but up to that point, it’s very useful.
personally, i use ideas from integral calculus to help myself understand different physical phenomena that i encounter in everyday life. whether or not it is necessary or useful is determined by whether a person deems it important or necessary to understand the world around them.
also, i use integrals when trying to find volumes of objects. you know, like when trying to find out how long i should cook my potatoes. (based pn volume, density, specific heat capacity, oven temp, height above sea level, et cetera)
math is very useful.
OR — you could cook it for awhile and then stick a fork in it and see if it’s done. I’m just sayin’.
I cook my steel using calculus. Its the only way to make high quality steel.
LOL You don’t stick a fork in your steel and call it done?
you only need to consult the proper charts for the heat treatment of steel alloys. calculations are typically unnecessary
I disagree. I use a mind numbing amount of advanced math all day every day. Especially Base-N math and working with Octal and Hex.
Computer programming or a related field?
“Senior .NET Analyst”
Base-N math, Octal, Hex, et al. fall under the heading of “mind numbing advanced math”?!
Well, given that “advanced math” for the general population (and the chart maker, apparently) is anything beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, I suppose changing bases is really advanced.
I disagree. If you figure out how long it will take you to travel a certain distance at a 60 mph (give or take) you’ve used *gasp* algebra. The whole “I don’t use any of the math I learned in school” argument gets old.
…I learned algebra in 8th grade.
25mi/60mph is not algebra. Thou I agree, this is an old argument mainly used by idiot shift managers at some restaurant to justify dropping out of high school. I use college level math everyday, but I’m an engineer.
I’m an ad agent. I let my laptop and excel do all my math for me. I rarely even use the first 4, let alone anything I learned in high school or college. Of course sales and advertising is something you learn on the job….
Even if you let the laptop and excel do the math, you still have to put the numbers into the equation, thus using it. Solving it and using it are different.
If you don’t do the math someone does. Who created computers and computer programs like excel?
I know high school drop outs who use higher level math everyday. They are carpenters. It’s really hard to build things without math (or at least build them well).
Agreed. It also depends on what you plan to do after you’re done school and whether or not the topics actually apply.
Or maybe, just maybe, you need some good skills to create a corner seated loft in your daughters room and have to figure with some geometry and work out the load bearing capacity. Not just a job, its an adventure. (loft works great!)
Geometry is Grade 6/7 at best.
Current Curriculum in California:
6th grade – advanced arithmetic (long division, patterns, big numbers)
7th grade – Pre-Algebra
8th grade – Algebra I
9th grade – Geometry
10th Grade – Algebra II
11th Grade – PreCal
12th Grade – Calculus or Statistics
Obviously this can be changed around depending on the individual student. But Assuming you pass all your classes and don’t skip ahead, this is your general outline.
I took geometry in tenth grade.
I suspect that RJ might really have been talking about trigonometry rather then geometry as the term is used in US secondary schools. At least in VA where I took it, geometry was all about constructing parallel lines and proving little theorems about angles being equal and so forth. Trigonometry was where you actually learned how to *calculate* angles and do useful applied geometry. That came a year or two later.
Huh. Here in Ohio we learned them both in the same class, in 10th grade (although I think you could take it in 9th if you took the AP classes in middle school).
AP classes in middle school?
IN MN its the same as CA except, a year behind.
Yeah, at least in the schools I went to, you could start taking AP math and English classes starting in the 7th grade. I’m not sure if that’s true for the entire state, but considering I transferred from a district in one city to one in another city over 100 miles away and both of them did it, it seems like it’s probably standard here. If you got high enough scores on your SATs you could also take college classes during your senior year of high school and the credit would go toward both, but again, I don’t know how widespread that is.
What you NEED to use is your brain, to learn stuff. Including math.
You also need to learn how to use proper English.
Generally, to be fair, people who excel at math often don’t excel highly in English. Get over yourself.
This is a myth. All the math majors I know get A’s in English.
This myth is perpetuated by English majors who can’t do math.
Like my English teacher…pfffft
Generally, people who are skilled in math have good grammar skills as well. Language and arithmetic go together.
His English is good. His punctuation is bad.
The reason you’re required to take math is to train you to think analytically. It’s not that you’ll necessarily need what you’re learning.
I guess that if you’re comfortable being an ignorant fool then it’s okay to believe what this graph says.
total agreement, but there doesn’t seem to be too many people that know that it is a way to teach us analytical thinking (which hopefully is used daily, college or not) also, you really do use advanced math a lot, maybe not daily, but enought to justify it (how much to cook, how much carpet to buy, how long should the curtains be, how much paint to buy to cover that ugly brown that was there when you moved in ect)
The reason you take any sort of advanced math in high school is so you can take AP exams and test out and not have to take it in college.
/thread
or… maybe you’ll need it in college anyway? I need through calc 4 plus one course after that, for meteorology.
And here I though that for meteorology all you had to learn was how to roll dice and flip coins.
Go to college and do something scientific, that will change your perspective.
Geometry is useful in practical problems involving physical objects
Calculus is useful in just about anything and makes a lot of what you learned in geometry seem useless. Really the answer to “Why do I have to learn this math?” in 8-12 grade is simple: you’ll need it for calculus. The simplest useful calculus application is maximizing and minimizing functions.
“Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house.” – Robert Heinlein
well said….
or at least well quoted.
i was in a calc lecture the other day and the teacher was explaining that “this you will never actually use but im going to teach it anyway”
not even use it in the exam.
but so far thats all as far as not using maths has got. most other stuff either has been useful or i can see it’s possible usefulness
Like English?
What a wonderful attitude to display to one’s students. No wonder so many people hate math and science–these topics are presented by so many teachers as useless collections of boring facts that you have to memorize to pass a test.
The teacher apparently *didn’t* intend for it to be on a test, so no, they didn’t have to “memorize it to pass a test”. I’ve had several teachers in several different subjects basically say “You’re never going to use this, and I’m not putting it on the test, but I want to show it to you anyway because I think it’s cool.” I thought it made things more interesting (probably because I generally thought it was cool, too), and since we knew it wasn’t going to be on the test, we could just sit back, relax, and *enjoy* learning instead of stressing about it.
Exactly. As an instructor and enthusiast of math, I can assure you that there is much more that we’d like to be teaching because we think it’s cool. But we hold back, and most of us only do that once or twice.
Bingo. I recollect boring novels which were required reading. A few years after the classes, I voluntarily read the previous books and found them enjoyable. Also, I had an instructor who taught bad math to illustrate correct math, or at least to make it understandable.
He only said cope. It’s not like he thought everyone should be excellent in math.
I disagree. There are PLENTY of jobs where more complex mathematics are needed. And I agree with all of the people above who said this topic is getting old.
I agree.
“It says “Math topics I will need to use”
You don’t need geometry or calculus if you work at McDonalds…
Oh, c’mon! The top and bottom halves of the bun, the patty, and the pickles are all approximately discs of various radii, which must be configured in a manner compatible with my desire to eat (if only they were cooked that way). Not to mention those deep fried rectangular prisms of potato.
except most of what they teach you from 8th grade and up is a combination of the 4 first mentioned ^^ esp in algebra
I need calc all the time, OP is retarded.
It says something about your knowledge about math that he/she considers addition, subtraction, multiplication and division to be distinct math topics. FYI, “any combo of the four” is called arithmetic.
Also, I’d like my hamburger medium rare.
Uuuuh, lemme get the manager.
“lemme”? That don’t look like good English, to. me.
Uhm, geometry….you don’t have to use that?
i disagree as well, this may not apply to everyone, but for those who go into business, statistics play a big role in their jobs. thats definitely something you should know
statistics isn’t math. statistics is a bastard child that calls itself a ‘science’ and is comprised of a system of guesses that happen to use math functions in order to justify their existence. werd.
How is 2*2 NOT math? Or the binomial coefficient for that matter?
“2*2″ is ‘math’ in the same way that a “screwdriver” is ‘fixing a drawer.’
Can anyone tell me what calculus is?
Before you shout at me for being dumb, i am in the UK so I guess we just call it something else.
Also I am a Primary School teacher. I teach 10 year olds. In maths I teach them stuff I know they will never need to use.
maybe primary teachers like yourself are causing too many students to think math is useless.
calculus can be divided into two parts. integral calculus is the part where you can use magic to add up millions of pieces, and differential calculus is where you can use magic to find out the rate at which things change. also, they are tied together by the fundamental theorem of calculus, which basically says that an integral is the inverse of differentiation.
by “magic,” i mean “stuff that’s too complicated for anyone to want to read here.”
OK, what a nice kind bunch you lot are.
I remember learning that the internal angles of a triangle add up to 180º. I have never needed to use that outside of an exam.
I don’t tell my class that I think what they are learning is useless.
Anyone who ends up being a joiner will need this.
Anybody who wants to work with tools will need that.
I have a pool table and the 15 target balls have a diameter of 3″. I lost the triangle to arrange them and wanted to make a new one from a slat that is 0.5″ thick. How long a slat do I need to buy?
I had this problem in real life. And luckily I was able to solve it with math I learned in school.
Spice up your lessons with applications like that and maybe the kids will be more keen to pick it up.
I am from the UK and can’t believe what i just read. I am a sixth form student studying advanced math, and although this gives me an upper hand, i find it hard to believe that a primary school teacher does not know what calculus is. In addition, how can you say the math you are teaching will not be used by your students in the future? You are providing a basis of math for which they will depend on for the rest of their lives.
oh btw it IS called calculus in the UK. Basically it is studyng deriving and integrating functions (with or without limits) and studying the change of these functions.
Burrrrrn.
Perhaps “Hello Yes” is, in fact, a 10 year old child, but did not want to admit such a fact, and so claimed to teach 10 year old children in a foreign land?
I’m not saying that all the maths I teach will not be used, what I am saying is that some of it will never be used by most people outside of an exam.
Of course they need to use the four functions, but I have never had to work out the volume of a cone outside an exam.
I find it very disturbing that someone who allegedly teaches 10 year olds maths doesn’t know what calculus is. It’s not surprising that the UK has problems in attracting and retaining future scientists and engineers on University courses if this is the attitude of primary school maths teachers.
This is what I am required by the government to teach.
http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/19104
Don’t see calculus there.
Wow, no… but all of those subjects I would list as “the math I actually use frequently in my every day life”, and I don’t just mean work, I mean hobbies… art and crafts.
Not only is it called calculus there, and everywhere in the English speaking world, but the inventor/discoverer of calculus (one of them) is from UK.
Qualified for job fail.
Technically teachers only have to know the subjects they will teach and nothing more. You could suck hardcore and fail out of college level math, but if you did good in high school math, you can teach it.
More or less. Although, speaking from experience, I would say they need to know one level more than what they’re supposed to teach, in case they have a bright student or two who asks a question about something beyond what’s in the teacher’s manual, or an exceptionally weak student, in which case, you’d need to have a deeper understanding (not too deep, though) so you can break it down further.
But somebody who’s gotten to the point where they can teach at any level should at least have heard of calculus, even if they don’t know what it is.
You should’ve googled…
What are you teaching your 10-year olds?! If it’s arithmetic, they will use it every time they go to the supermarket and need to work out whether the 500g or 750g packet is better value. And every time they go to a restaurant and split the bill. And every time they’re on Who Wants to be a Millionaire, and need to know many hours and minutes there are between 7.14am and 5.11pm. Srsly.
maths?
Correct usage in the UK, actually.
I’m from Canada where we say math instead of maths, but I think the UK usage makes more sense. It’s short for mathematics, which is pluralized. Likewise, even in North America, we say stats and not stat as a short form for statistics.
I think the reason that the “s” began being omitted from the North American version is because “maths” creates the awkward”ths” sound. Beyond that I can’t imagine why we would have dropped the “s”.
Because there is no “s” after the “th” in the spelling.
i use discrete math everyday. linear programming everyday, statistics and probability every day.
the graph should have been:
chances of me working at McDonalds
|No|———————————–|yes|
—————————————————^
Who cares if you don’t need it, it’s fun!
Exactly!
I know a lot of math (and science, and assorted other subjects) that I don’t NEED to use on any sort of regular basis, but I still like it and want to learn more because it’s interesting. I’m one of those people who really likes knowing how things work and why they are the way they are, though, so I guess somebody who doesn’t care about that would probably disagree.
The person that made this graph must be a spoiled little high schooler who has NO idea what the real world is like. Grow up!
Or you know, they could be one of the millions in manufacturing or distribution type jobs that don’t need to know jack about math.
Even the logic of the graph is wrong, demonstrating that the author doesn’t know enough math to make a simple graph. The odds of any combination of things can NOT be greater than the odds of any one of those things.
I disagree
Whoever made this must be in 8th grade.
:/ i dunno. what you learn in elementary is fine for everyday. high school was pretty useless for every day.
if you are going to deal in advanced math, go to college. why pound high end math into someones head when it will be forgotten in a year?
I learned a great deal of math that I forgot later on. It comes back quickly enough when you need it.
I also teach math. Quite often students will have forgotten something important from an earlier course. A small number students never learned in the first place. It’s much easier to remind them about what has been forgotten than it is to explain for the first time.
If they had been paying attention in Math class they could have made a simpler graph. There are only two functions, addition and multiplication.
Oh, and here’s one for you: What do you get when you cross an elephant and a grape? Elephant Grape sine theta.
Ha! I snorted loudly in my office.
Not according to Texas Instruments, there aren’t.
nice…
Whereas graphs like this make me weep for my generation, it’s nice to know that the majority of the reviews for this graph think that it’s highly inaccurate
I wish more people would realize how important math really is…
Gee, I guess I also didn’t need all that literature and history they taught me in school either, I mean how many times a day do I have to know who Louis the Sun King is? I mean aside from trivia tv shows I watch after my mindless job what is the point of knowing anything except how to flip burgers?
PS: asthmatics is not the same as mathematics
Well, when you look at it, all math boils down to addition; everything else is just an abbreviation for really complex addition, the one possible exception being non-integral calc.
There is more to math than monoids.
I your attitude towards the math is the only reason none of that math was of use after 8th grade. Addition, subtraction, division, and multiplication become something one does not even think about.
This is not necessarily true. I worked my way through Trig in high school, and never bothered to continue in college. I agree that algebra, geometry, and trig are useful in everyday life, if you internalize the concepts beyond simply juggling numbers on paper. Sadly, they way the schools teach math does not encourage that.
However, I dispute your statement about arithmetic. While I find geometry and algebra intuitive and can readily apply them to real world situations, I have, to this day, significant trouble with basic arithmetic. My brain simply is not predisposed towards rote memorization, so without a calculator I take quite some time to sum the actual numbers involved in an equation.
Coming up with a formula for a problem though, that’s easy.
Luckily, nowadays, no one is ever really far from a calculator. When I’m programming, I have the windows calculator, or heck, the programming language I’m coding in with which to run numbers. And when I’m not near a computer, my phone has a calculator.
So I would actually argue that, beyond understanding the concept of what each arithmetic operation *is*, and how it works… The memorization of sums and products is actually the part of math that isn’t “necessary” for everyday life.
Regardless, the statement that it “becomes something one does not even think about” is simply not true for all people. No matter how much practice they put in.
The maker of this graph better run.
All the math majors, math based field students will throw a tizzy that their studies were in vain.
Mathematicians are the ones who rule the world now… everyone involved in designing/implementing technology (like, for example, biomedical engineers, aerospace engineers, and computer programmers) needs a strong math background. I’d hate to be on the receiving end of that “tizzy.” But this graph offends more than just math majors – I’m a humanities major, and I still use higher level math than basic arithmetic. Not in my field, per se, but in daily life.
Such as?
Simple example: “the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.” Basic geometry.
Or altering a recipe that feeds six so that it can feed ten. It’s not just simple multiplication; the new volume of food results in a different cook time that has to be calculated.
Or any of Basara’s examples from below. I particularly like the tax example.
Hmm….I thought insects ruled the world?
This pretty much sums up what i think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EakdDE7SAyo
Everything I need to know about math I learned from Engineer’s Guide to Cats – especially Zoe’s use of gravity.
(link – if it works)
.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mHXBL6bzAR4
The best part in Math is that almoast everything can be reduced to + or – operations.
so FREAKIN true!
Graph creator is probably butt-hurt ninth-grader who got a D in “stuff they teach us after 8th grade.”
Math is power, learn to love it.
Maths*
This couldn’t be more true. I just managed a pass in my math finals two years ago and since then I have never had to use anything but +, -, *, /.
You don’t NEED to know anything else then that to get through life, unless you want to work in something math-related, something which I never intend to do.
Plus math is the most boring subject in the world and as soon as I finished my finals I burned all my math books.
There’s some new thing out here (US) about how
4 out of 10 high school kids drop out-
my husband wondered why they didn’t reduce…?!?
*I solve for “X” quite a bit, but that’s about the height.
(if there are 10mg in a ml, and I need 24 mg…)
I never got to Calculus.
*hangs head a little*
Any time you have to deal with non-decimal measurements, you’re pretty much using algebra and/or Geometry.
Examples:
Converting a recipe to a different size, that uses teaspoons, tablespoons and/or cups. Solving for X when dealing with these can be fun (6 teaspoons = 2 tablespoon = 1 ounce = 1/8 cup), and involves substitution into equations that is typically a HS level means of teaching (in fact, you’ll run into these equations more often in HS Home Ec courses, as they’ll only get a couple day’s time in Algebra)
Figuring how much wall/ceiling area there is, to THEN be able to use lower-level math to figure out how many gallons of paint to buy.
For that matter, figuring out how much flooring you’ll need to buy to cover the floor in the house (and if a tile-based function, recognizing that you’re gonna have to buy extra tiles, as the excess won’t spread out like paint will – Example, having to cut tiles to match the pattern at the wall, where you can only use 1 part of each tile to keep it from looking hideous, as using the other side in a different spot will look wrong)
Figuring out the amount of seed or fertilizer for a landscaping application, or even how many plants you need to cover an area, or can safely plant in safe area. Similarly, calculating the amount of additives to put into a swimming pool. (moral of this one – illegal immigrants picked up on the corner by the landscaper apparently use more HS math than the original poster. Granted, some of the illegals probably have college degrees from back home, and are working toward getting into a US school to get US certification in their real profession if they get legal status; I’ve actually met a couple of these types)
As another poster pointed out, it’s also useful on the road.
60 / (seconds to go 1 mile) * (60 MPH) = equals your average speed over that mile (substitute km as needed for your location).
Speed / Distance = hours to destination (of course; multiply both sides by 60 for minutes – then again, I can do ALL these in my head – drives my passengers nuts – or the driver, if I’m a passenger)
Even figuring tax on an item is technically algebra or higher, as one does not pay fractions of cents on the total purchase, and many states that have a common RATE actually have different breakpoints within the cents level as to where 1 cent becomes 2, etc. Add in local taxes and it’s definitely not 8th grade math:
Rounded (State rate * X) + Rounded (Local rate * X) + X = final cost, which only equals X * (state rate + local rate + 1) without the rounding about half the time.
And, all these are things normal people encounter at home or in their car – not work (though some people do these things professionally as a service for others, like landscaping, painting and cooking). I won’t even go into things like making sure that you’re not being overcharged by a taxi, or by a coworker dividing up lunch costs for a group order, which themselves aren’t directly work related…
I like brevity!
I also think I use a boatload of advanced math every day whether I like it or not. Though…. it’s kinda rare in the computer fixin’ world I live in. For that we use mostly logic and voodoo: not encessarily in that order.
Did I mention the brevity thing yet?
No. No, no, no.
Are these genuinely the thought processes through which you go to arrive at these answers? Boy, are you making things complicated. All of these examples–and I mean all–have easier answers arrives at via simple arithmetic and common sense.
Tip? For 15 %, take a quick 10% of the bill. (ex: $24.00 tab, quick 10% is 2.40.) Halve the 10%: 1.20. 2.40 + 1.20= 3.60. Works every time.
Amount of paint? 4 walls measuring 10 feet by 6 feet: 60 x 4 = 240 sq. ft. Now, look on paint can. Let’s say one can covers 100 square feet. Well, now, I guess I need more than one can, but not more than two.
Math majors love to tell the world that it’s the freaking be all and end all. “You use algebra every day”–HA! I’m 45 years old and I can attest that I have never, EVER needed do anything of a higher level than long division. And, no, I don’t work at Mickey D’s.
I could go on, but I won’t. Sheesh.
Oops. Shoulda said “not more than three.”
How did you know that a 10×6 wall is 60 square feet?
Geometry.
That IS high level math, not simple arithmetic. You just think that high level math is more complicated and esoteric than it actually is, which, to be fair, is the fault of the way it’s taught in school.
Also, I should point out that the process you described for figuring out a 15% tip *is* algebra.
You’re already using it, even if you don’t know it
Sorry. Disagree. Multiplication and division are *not* algebra.
Why not?
You realize that *all* algebra actually is… Is determining how to *apply* addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division to a problem?
Is dividing something by 10 algebra? No. But figuring out the process by which you can arrive at 15% of something… THAT is algebra.
x = c / 10
y = x / 2
z = x + y
Where c is the cost of your dinner.
That’s an algebraic formula, and all it is, is a shorthand way of saying *exactly* what you said in your post: Divide by ten. Divide that by 2. Sum the quotients.
Our schools teach math horribly, they try to divorce the concept of numbers from reality from kindergarten on (This basically starts when they try to break you of counting on your fingers), so a lot of people don’t understand what algebra is. It’s not something esoteric or difficult. It’s just the process of applying arithmetic to the real world.
Nothing less, nothing more.
As a former math teacher I could go on and on about the math you’re likely to use in every day life. Or point out that, while you may not use the actual math, you’ll use the thinking skills you (are supposed to) learn while you’re learning the math. Or I could tell the story about my dad building our porch and cursing his mother for not making him take geometry. But no one would really read all that anyway, so instead I’ll merely point out that…
Making a graph is something you learn in high school math.
Also,
QP= 4oz
oz=28 gm
1/4oz = um, forgot where I was going here…
It means the main ways that Americans learn about grams and the metric system are through drugs, cervical dilation during the end of pregnancy, and when you try to compare volume/size/weight with friends from other parts of the world not accustomed to the King’s standard.
Finally! A comment about graphs being part of math! I was determined to read to the bottom before putting my two cents in about that.
Elementary math should probably be listed as addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and GRAPHING.
My only beef with high school math is the notion that all students should be required to pass algebra to graduate. Some of my students have much more critical needs in life than learning fancy-pants methods of problems that can mostly be solved using simpler means.
And btw, I LOVE algebra. Took it in college 3 times (because I went to 3 different colleges) and became really at home there.
So why is art and music teached?
You mean ‘taught’?
What do you mean ‘why’? Is this sarcasm?
ever seen that film called “why americans are stupid?” well this is why.
Don’t forget: PEMDAS… And huge fractions AND compound probability. And Pythagoras.
Or just the simple fact that, to save money at the store, you need to know math. Gasp, some people even learned to do it in their heads. Percentages without calculators? Unheard of anymore.
People with the argument ‘Oh, I know what I’m doing when I get out of high school, hence why I don’t need a higher level in math’: sorry, but it doesn’t always work that way.
I went in for music, so I needed basic math just to get through. Changed my mind (when I decided what I’d be decent in other than music) and went into Nutrition. There are loads more math classes I need to take to support my chemistry classes and such..
So take the classes and find your limits. Knowing who you are is better than admitting how lazy you’ve let yourself become.
Ha. I always intended on doing music, until I actually got to university, when I decided to do chem. I took math courses partly as a requirement to support the chem and partly as a potential minor. I hated university math at first. Out of stubbornness, I stuck with math, though. By the middle of my third year of chem, I was sick of it,and math was becoming very interesting, so I majored in math instead.
SO I’m one of those people who actually uses higher level math every single day of my working life (Statistical analysis…complex machines)
When one is learning math, you aren’t only learning the math…you are teaching your brain how to process information through a series of discreet steps that will get you to a predictable result.
In other words, those freaking teachers are pulling a fast one on you…they are teaching you how to approach problems step wise….Heaven forbid.
It’s no different than learning how to start your car…think about the steps you go through to put the key in the ignition…turn the key…pump the gas…
that is no different than deriving an equation.
So learn your math…and you’ll be able to apply the process if not the actual mathematical problem
I’m a practicing engineer. Honestly, if you’re using advanced math to work on ANY project, you’re making it harder than it has to be or you’re just trying to show off. Any project, question, or concern can be solved with addition, subtraction, multiplication and divison. A really tough problem may require 8th grade Algebra. There, I’ve admitted it. The only hard thing about being an engineer is fulfilling the math requirements in college that you’ll never use.
*applauds loudly and enthusiastically*
Generally, advanced mathematics can have it’s uses. Engineering has a lot of different branches. Just because you can figure out how to use math to do your job doesn’t mean every engineer (or whatever, since engineering isn’t obviously the only field to use math) has that option. You have learned to implement the simplest math to answer some of the hardest questions, which can be a rarity. Simplest form isn’t always the easiest, though.
It really depends on the type of engineering you do, and at what level. I’ve friends and relatives in civil who forget most of the first year math they learned. On the other hand, electrical engineering, at least at the research level, uses an incredible amount of advanced math. The math department at my university has a signal processing group, most of whose members are cross appointed with the electrical engineering department.
Ruth, your admission seems to indicate a bright high school student can do your job, which is probably not true. Perhaps you are missing the fact that understanding a derivation and its proper application is part of mathmatics. Many engineers DO use complex equations and DO know why they apply to their particular situation. Thinking “this always works” is the first step to failure.
They may *call* you an engineer at work, but if you really don’t use anything beyond basic arithmetic or simple algebra in *any* project then most practicing engineers wouldn’t consider what you do to be engineering. Maybe if you’re doing really low level civil stuff and you get all your formulas from handbooks and canned software it would be possible to pass yourself off as an engineer this way.
No one want to be a scientist or engineer?
(I’m an asian.)
Did everybody miss the point that the graph was just supposed to be funny?
Oh really? I thought everybody came to graph jam to be serious.
Of course we know that the graph was just supposed to be funny. Did you miss the fact that it wasn’t?
Facts aren’t subjective, sorry to say. For those in the world that aren’t math majors, or even mathematically inclined, this may be funny.
Dammit! You had to bring that up. I’m just relieved you didn’t mention that it scored a user rating 4 pie charts out of 5, which means that I missed the fact that it is, on average, about 80% funny.
The real reason I didn’t think it was funny is because it’s derivative. I laughed the first time I saw more or less the same graph in a different form, two months ago.
Haha, what a world we live in when funniness has become a percentage.
If you had a real job (let me guess, sales clerk?) you would use more math. I use linear algebra, diff eq and statistics everyday
A “real job”? Do I even need to explain the ignorance loaded into that?
It’s true too. Unless you work with science and computers or something along that lines. My dad has only used a type of math he learned in high school once whne working with computers DX
The end of the line is, that regardless of whether you do or do not know that you’re using math everyday, you are. The brain performs complex calculations in matters of milliseconds just so your body can function. How does a quarterback’s brain know where and when to throw the ball to a receiver? As such, to say that you do not use more than arithmetic everyday is a fallacy.
As for what kinds of math you consciously use, that depends on a lot of circumstances, but mostly you just need to read the comments above to see the many practical, everyday uses. Even today, I was figuring out how to attack a tank in Call of Duty, and I decided, “well, the most direct route between two points is a straight line…”
Sorry, that should be “shortest distance,” not “most direct route”. Brain farts are fun.
The analogy that I like to use is driving.
When you take driving lessons, the in-class instructors gives you all sorts of directions like “come to a full and complete stop at a stop sign” “make sure the traffic is clear before proceeding” or “put your direction lights on at a certain distance before you turn” etc.
But when somebody gives you directions from point A to point B (along the shortest distance, we hope), they just say “make a left here, drive for so long, make another left, drive to the next intersection make a right, and another right” or something like that.
Unconsciously, you’re using stuff that you learned in your driving class, but the person giving you directions never actually says “drive for so long, put your direction light on to indicate that your are making a left hand turn, make a full and complete stop at the stoplight, check to see that no cars are coming from the opposite direction, then turn left.” You’d probably want to punch him if he did. And if you ignore what your instructor said, you could end up in a ditch.
(I’m sure you’ve figured out by now that) I think math is like what they teach you in driving class, while every other discipline that uses math is like actual driving. You can use math, advanced or otherwise, even if you’re not doing it explicitly, but you could have difficulty in your own subject if ignore the math.
And just like the existence of driving instructors depends on a need to drive safely, the existence of math depends on a need to solve problems with it.
blah blah blah…
That’s a very good analogy, SnowBro.
Akshully I go to a speshul skools so I lern this stuff in 4th graed and ten aftur dat we lern algerba and giometrics and speshul big maths skills we wuld lern in 8th graid at a normel skool. But I am speshul with a Eye Queue of ober 180 so i r shmart
nice spelling, natasha.
I think advanced math should be taught, but it should not be mandatory. It’s one thing to make it available to learn, but quite another to force someone to learn something they don’t need or have any interest in.
It’s true, I don’t see anything that advanced math is used for now. I don’t work at fast food either…that’s what Excel and scientific calculators are for.
SOOOOOO TRUE
Eighth grade? That’s when you stop learning +-/x? I learned that at 4 years old, pre-algebra in 2nd grade. This graph-maker must be in the dummy class.
Huh. Sounds like the russian curriculum. Well, I’m guessing this guy’s american. We are still being taught + – x / in 7th grade >.>
To be honest actually….I study medicine and it’s largely physiology-centered….which is largely physics-centered….which, tragically, is calculus-centered….
Boy, this graph really brought out the assburgers. Guess what nerds, unless you’re an engineer or programmer, you will NEVER use anything beyond arithmetic. Also, if you think studying math so you can be a rigid, objective thinker is a good thing, you need to put down the Ayn Rand.
The majority of volume equations in geometry are watered down calculus that were presented after the common ratio was discovered.
Also, algebra is nothing more than Arithmatic where the blank as been shifted to the other side of the equal sign and where it was the new number is revealed, and the constant in the place where the blank was moved to is now covered.
Calculus is that lovely little set of math that came from the process of answering two little questions.
1) What is the slope of a line tangent to a curve.
2) What is the area of the space under the curve on a graph.
#1 resulted in derivitives which are the simplifications of the limits used to solve for the slope, and #2 resulted in anti-derivitives, or differential equations as the more common name.
Interestingly enough, both aspects work in opposite directions, just like adding and subtracting, or multiplying and dividing.
what? thanks for that i am taking calculus this year and school starts in abt a month!
You think you would have computers without math learned after 8th grade?
You must be deluded.
epic phail
Sorry, I can’t get on board with either boasting about how much you don’t know, or how knowledge is useless just because you personally don’t use it. With a little trig or calculus, you can quickly solve problems where you’d otherwise sit around and say “Duh.” Of course, if you’re not interested in knowing how anything works, then yeah, you don’t “need” most math — but that’s a pretty sad standard. Let’s go back to the Stone Age and try to enjoy it. (Although even they probably knew a thing or two about angles…)
First it’s design of the mobile phone. Most probably many testers and researchers’ main concern is the appearance and feeling of a famus Branded Mobile phone. To make these phones look good, they provide plenty of their time and effort, this corresponds to the costs accepted by the supervisor. The slip up of China cell phones is that they miss this step. They typically will acquire a pre-existing phone case molding and then use their unique electronics and components inside. They base their moldings on iPhone or BlackBerry, which are internationally famous brands, therefore China phones look fake. Why do they do this? It’s since it costs less to copy the moldings of famous brands than to research and make their own.
Second it’s the chip.
Branded Cell Phones use a spread of various chips for the cell phones they make. Chips with sharp MHz rate usually are not vital with the latest flasher functions of a phone. Phones marketed to a lower end base can use chip sets that enclose a processing rate that’s much slower, making the purchase price much lower in comparison.
MEDIATEK chip set is employed by China cell phones. There are two levels in phones with MTK chip sets.
One, is the cheaper, MEDIATEK6225, which has added features: Internet, camera and MP players. MTK6235 is quicker, with enormous scree, high res cameras, edge connection speed and wifi. Both are usually not as fast and powered as the branded ones. However, to the China cell phones makers, these are an advantage due to the fewer fee & availability.
And it’s about the cell phone’s Platform.
Nokia and Moto have diverse operating systems from other cell phones. Cutting corners means having the right to implement and settle in other companycell phones. Most China mobile phones producers use the nucleus OS. This OS is used owing to the its easy structure, less speed,much supply and nice.
Forthly it’s the cell phone’s UI .
A custom tailored OS is utilized by branded mobiles. This is completed in order that the phone can have a distinctive feel and look which separates them from the group of other cell phones. China phones have the ability to invent a wide selection of differing UIs when using the nucleus OS. However, they are doing this, not for competition, but to create better phone brands. They do this to contest with the market of the famus Branded Mobile phones. A copied covering tend to be contrasting from the famous iPhone. In conclusion, famus Branded Cell Phones are more favorable than those made from China. Beware then of faux bargain basement priced China phones..
I call bull,Figuring out your gas milage and speed time distance are common sense,not something most people equate learning from school,I dropped out of school in 9 th grade and math was a big part of why I left ,yet I became a master tile stone mason and routinely build design things you advanced math people can’t fathom! my wife deals with engineers at work who can’t read a tape measure or assemble an Ikea product!! I know what I call natural math yet I can’t comprehend my 10 graders homework.Negative Numbers,fraction division,trig al nonsense for 90% of the people.
Math and other subjects are all equally useful in different respects. That’s okay, though, you guys can keep on with your, “my dad is better than your dad” argument.
I didn’t say they weren’t. But you wouldn’t get very far in any of them without math. Nor would math be what it is if it weren’t for those subjects. Many topics in pure math are motivated by problems in other subjects, which only serves to reinforce the importance of mathematics for students in those subjects, and vice versa.
I’m not trying to say “my dad is better than your dad”, only that “my dad is better than you make him out to be”.