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…according to other men.
Exactly. I’m thinking these percentages are off. Should be 0%, 100%.
I dislike the bible as much as anyone, but people who don’t know the first thing about it shouldn’t really be commenting on it. Only about 2% of the bible’s contents is Jesus dialog, so saying 25% of it contains things Jesus said just demonstrates adaliapeace’s ignorance.
No, no. Doctor had it right. Since Jesus never really existed and was merely a fictional character whose life and teachings were based on earlier religious myths, technically it should be 0%, 100%.
I’m sure you have solid evidence of the non-existence of Jesus?
Oddly enough I have the exact same amount of evidence for the non-existence of Jesus as I have the non-existence of unicorns and fairies.
(It’s pretty much impossible to prove a things non-existence.)
I may be wrong, but as far as I have been informed, Jesus of Nazareth was a real person, in as much a way you and I are real people, nothing special about him of course, but he existed. I believe the reason I am under the assumption of this is because the Bible was not the only writing to refer to him from the time. Correct me if I’m wrong please.
You are not wrong. The Jewish historian Josephus mentions Jesus twice in his book Antiquities of the Jews, written in the latter part of the first century CE. The first passage describes his ministry, but many scholars contest its authenticity, preferring the theory that the detail was added later by Christians. The second mention of Jesus is, however, considered authentic – it mentions him as the brother of James, who later became known as James the Just in religious circles.
You would be correct. Tacitus calls him “Chrestus”, which is a fair Romanization of the Greek. Josephus also mentions him.
Suetonius mentions the Christians, calling them “notoriously depraved”. To the Romans, the Christians weren’t just atheistic infidels who actively wished for the destruction of Rome every day they failed to sacrifice (they saw failure to sacrifice in *exactly* the same way conservative Christian Americans see flag-burning), they also actively worked to weaken Roman society by raising children that had been exposed. The Christian antipathy to suicide struck Romans as cowardly and self-serving. (A common trope in Roman times was teh weak, cowardly Emperor who was afraid to kill himself. See Tacitus on Nero.)
There is suspiciously little reference to him in the writings of the time – only one mention (cited above) and there’s still no evidence that that particular Jesus was the same Jesus as Paul writes about.
There are many books disputing his actual existence, even as a man, if you are interested. Check Amazon or your local library.
All this stuff aside, you want to tell me the most influential figure in human history didn’t exist?
Hmm. One should go check a valid and respected Jewish historian named Josephus. He made references to the historic Jesus. One has to conclude the fact or fiction of His deity, by faith. But just as there was a George Washington, there was a Jesus of Nazareth.
Actually, Shaungrl, it’s been established for a while now that the writings mentioning Jesus supposedly written by Josephus are fakes. The writing style, among other “tells” such as the age and type of materials used, points to this.
Actually, the Romans kept meticulous records. No Jesus of Nazareth. He is based on Zoroaster.
Because the Romans would TOTALLY want to immortalize a potentially dangerous revolutionary.
The immortalised Simon of Gitta, and he came a lot closer to beating them…
As to the Josepheus references… the jury is pretty much out as to whether Jesus was actually mentioned or it’s a later interpolation.
He certainly doesn’t mention gospel events his father would have seen – the rending of the veil, the earth shaking and the darkness mentioned around the crucifixion… Josepheus isn’t a very good external reference.
Washington is a lot better documented, since he had dealings with the British, the French, the Germans and the Spanish, in two way correspondence. There are also trade documents indicating his business, and there are records of his hemp operations. Washington is a no brainer to prove that someone was operating under that name.
If Jesus existed, then he slipped through the Roman cracks… Unless, of course you’re looking for a horse thief, which is another crime that would get you nailed to a tree, and is mentioned in the gospels… he certainly didn’t own the ass he rode in on…So, Roman records for Yeshua as a stealer of livestock may produce something more concrete…
The Romans “immortalized” TONS of revolutionaries.
They also liked to totally erase people they didn’t agree with from the history records.
You fail history.
*concurring*
apart from Simon of Gitta, who kept givng the Romans a bloody nose, and yet they made HIM a god…
@dexomega: And you have proof that jesus DID exist?
He doesn’t. So both theist and atheists believe although unproven. In response to the vast amount of comments above: yes the figure of Jesus as we know him is surrounded by characteristics of older prophets and small religions. But to say he didn’t exist at all is improbable. The first Christians didn’t just ‘pop up’. I say he probably existed, and was a great and charismatic guy. Most of the problems people have with Christianity are problems with the theology created in the centuries after Christ, things you won’t find in the bible. That God is omnipotent, ubiquitous and good has more to do with philosophy than religion. If anyone even bothers to read this between the vast expansion of opinions of half-informed people like myself.
I wasn’t commenting on Doctor’s post. Just continuing in the same vein of discussion. And most intelligent people are in concensus that Jesus did exist, though most of the stories about him in the bible may be fictional.
Which Jesus? There were a lot of men running around Israel at the time claiming to be the savior of the Jews, and that they would lead a revolt against the Roman empire. This is why the jews don’t consider the Jesus of the new testament to be their savior because the jewish savior is primarily a religious one. The model of spiritual salvation in the new testament is an adaptation of the various mystery cults that existed in the area at the time, such as those surrounding Dionysus and Mithras.
The Jewish messiah (“savior” is a term that has been almost completely monopolized by the Christian faith) is actually NOT thought of so much in religious terms as in political and militaristic terms: the messiah will rebuild Jerusalem, restore religious courts of justice and Temple service, and restore the David succession of kingship. The Jews don’t accept Jesus as the messiah because he did not accomplish any of those things.
And Yeshua ben Yusef was almost the ‘John Smith’ of its day…
and you get your history from what, Life of Brian?
It’s just as ridiculous to claim Jesus never existed as it is to claim every single word of the Bible is literal.
You are one ignorant fool, NoOneInteresting. Go to hell, since you don’t believe in Jesus. At least don’t make rude comments! I don’t care what your religion is, but saying stuff like that is just plain stupid and careless. You almost made me cry.
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As my grandma once said, “If you believe in Jesus while you’re still alive, and there is no Heaven and Jesus… oh well. But if you DON’T believe in Jesus/God and he turns out ot be real… you’re doomed.”
Disser, your comment = piffle, and is worthy of my distain. If God were real and even half the asshole he is in the bible, he would make his presence known since he can’t stand to be upstaged. The burden of proof lies squarely on the shoulders of people who believe in a supreme being. Please come to me with concrete evidence that your belief is the ONE and I will retract my statements and repent. If you had kids and loved them and wanted to make sure they grew into responsible adults, you wouldn’t send strangers to them to speak your will in unitelligeble double talk, you would make your presence known every day.
I was impressed his Grandma was Pascal of Wager fame…
I’ve always thought that, if you spend your life believing in Jesus and then get to the final destination to see Valhalla and a VERY upset Odin, then you’re in for a bumpy ride…
Disser, so your beliefs ( that are so strong a word against them almost makes you cry) are based on the fear that if there is a god and you didnt believe you would be doomed?
what if there are evil fairies that eat your soul if you believe in god? better protect yourself against that then
That’s when beliefs come in.
no, it’s not “when beliefs come in”. that’s a cop out, and a very weak cop out at that. it made no sense and didn’t have a context in the debate.
beliefs came in the moment you started typing, and that’s all you seem to have here, unsubstantiated beliefs.
Nothing wrong with beliefs when the fact can’t be proven either way — isn’t that the basis of faith?
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However, Disser, to “believe” in God and Jesus because the consequences will be better for you if they exist is lame. I don’t think I need to explain this further.
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Disser said: “I don’t care what your religion is, but saying stuff like that is just plain stupid and careless.”
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Cogency FAIL. NoOneInteresting did little other than state that Jesus did not exist, and it is anyone’s right to believe that, just as believe the opposite.
*just as you believe the opposite
Uncle Fester, that was terrific.
plus i love Nordic Mythology, so i get an added bonus off of that one
true but you also influence their lives in less obvious ways, allowing them to make their own decisions. its the whole free will argument.
“Go to hell, since you don’t believe in Jesus. At least don’t make rude comments!” I love the hypocrisy. Doesn’t your bible say judge not lest you be judged?
This argument that Disser’s grandmother made is called the “Pascal’s Wager.” (or Pascal’s Gambit)
But why choose just the Christian God? The Muslim’s also believe in a really great heaven and a really awful hell. What if you don’t also believe in Allah? If he exists, he will get pissed off and smite you into a firey ever-after. So by this argument, you have to believe in him too. And then, don’t you have to extend that to EVERY god throughout history with a heaven/hell belief or risk smiting by that particular god? Obviously you can’t prove that all of them don’t exist.
Richard Dawkins put forth a good response to this argument.
“Suppose we grant that there is indeed some small chance that God exists. Nevertheless, it could be said that you will lead a better, fuller life if you bet on his not existing than if you bet on his existing and therefore squander your precious time on worshipping him, sacrificing to him, fighting and dying for him etc”
Cheers.
JHS, are you aware that Allah, and the Christian God are the same thing? just worshiped differently.
Not quite the ‘same’
The God of Abraham was more or less a Hittite war god,
thus a ‘sun god’ (most gods of war are solar in nature). The Allah of Islam, while claiming the same genealogy, is a lot closer to the old Persian god of the the moon, and while having similar trappings of bad temper, no memory beyond you screwing up, and a tendency to want to kill all that breathes, isn’t the same chap.
It was more down to Caliphate expediency that they retained the Abraham link.
That’s just when beliefs come in. We all believe different stuff, and I’m okay with that. It’s just that when other people ridicule one, despite the fact that they have no facts to support their blabber, it really makes me mad. JUST BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT!
ummm….would that be why you said “Go to hell, since you don’t believe in Jesus” because you think its ok to believe different things? Why don’t you wait until you figured out what you believe andd then post? Might be easier than making an ass of yourself….just saying
Disser… Disser. Would you truly be so upset if I made fun of belief systems other than your own?
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Islam is stupid. Discuss.
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Hinduism is stupid. Discuss.
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Buddhism is stupid. Discuss.
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Beliefs that differ from my own are stupid. Discuss.
No, ridiculing any religion is not right! I am strongly against it, no matter what I believe in. I’m sorry about that other comment (the very first one) – it’s just that I was so furious that my heart was pounding and I don’t think well when that happens. I’m sorry to all, but it just aggravates me when people just can’t accept others, and I know I sometimes do the same!
…I honestly do not know how to respond to that.
I’ve actually wanted for a while to figure out what the perfect Pascal’s Wager is – the Nash equilibrium of religion, if you will. Pascal’s knowledge of religious possibilities was probably somewhat limited – Christianity vs. nothing – and it would be interesting to see which of all the religions or non-religions is ultimately the safest bet, all things being equal. Someone should do that!
Using an AI type minimax, I’d go for none… it’s less likely to piss off a deity since you worshipped them all equally (i.e. zero), whereas throwing all your eggs in one basket is then a reversed Russian roulette deal…
Beyond Pascal’s Wager, I’m not familiar with the logical/other techniques that you’re employing here, but I’d agree that worshipping none is the best way to go.
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There are potentially an infinite number of gods, so you could spend your life worshipping them all (wait, that’s not possible because life is finite), and even if you managed to do it you’d still be in the bad books with all of the jealous ones
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/regurgitation of philosophy studies
Pascal’s wager is offensive both to the faith in religion AND the intellect of the atheist (not saying religious people don’t have intellect), God would see through it, and as an intellectual being I don’t see how somebody could stoop so low. If there is a God, you’re screwed. If there isn’t, you’re screwed. It’s really the least useful position to have
Pascal did have his moments, though
“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.”
Yet Pascal advocated belief in God? Hmm…
Jonathon, I agree — if I were God, people who “believed” on a Pascal’s wager-like basis would NOT count as faithful in my books.
Oh dear, here I was thinking this was actually going to be a (semi) intelligent conversation, unlike most of the ones that occur after someone mentions the word ‘Jesus’ or ‘God’. There was actual historical evidence involved, not just blind regurgitation of dribble passed on to people by their parents/whoever. But no, thank you, Disser for restoring the balance to the angry, ignorant denial that I have come to expect.
Okay, if you’re going to tell someone that they’re being rude, you shouldn’t be insulting them right back.
Whether or not they believe in Jesus is their choice. We’ll find out when we’re dead.
By that reasoning, Disser, you should be believing in EVERY deity in existence, “just to make sure.”
By the way, Pascal’s Wager is horribly flawed. The above statement shows why.
That is why I believe in what I have faith in. THAT’S WHAT BELIEVING IS, YOU GUYS! And that’s the whole point of a religion.
Thank you!!!
And does anybody realize that I’m only 13??? Don’t waste your time arguing with a teen
I was just saying that this genuinely hurts my feelings and I don’t want to heart everybody else’s rude and ignorant comments. Get a life, and spend it wisely
Your comment that he is an “ignorant fool,” and to “go to hell,” that wouldn’t hurt any feelings, now would it? Since your 13, you’re old enough to think for yourself, and recognize what a hypocritical statement that was. I think I will “get life” and choose to do something with those decades other base it on the fear-mongering that is Pascal’s Gambit.
If he/she doesn’t believe in any of that stuff, then they shouldn’t believe in Heaven/Hell, now would he? So it shouldn’t hurt his feelings. Ridiculing other people’s beliefs CAN hurt other people’s feelings. Respect other people’s beliefs and get over it. End of story.
Some advice for you, Disser. While it’s true that I don’t believe in hell and was more amused by your comment that offended, you have to realize that not everyone who has views that differ from yours would be so unaffected by a comment like “go to hell”.
I was merely pointing out that, since there are no conclusive extra-biblical references to Jesus, it is only logical to assume that, like most of the rest of the characters in the bible, he is fictitious and/or based on pre-Christian legends.
As to your comment about ridiculing other people’s beliefs, well, I don’t know if that comment was directed at me. I don’t feel as though I did ridicule anyone’s beliefs. However, since the Christian religion, when judged completely objectively, is absolutely ridiculous it, by it’s very nature, invites ridicule (as do all religions). If you aren’t strong enough in your faith to either ignore comments from people who disagree with you or silence us with words gifted to you by the god in which you believe, perhaps you should re-evaluate your beliefs.
Okay, look, I didn’t mean “go to hell” as in I hate you! I meant that because in the religion THAT I BELIEVE IN, if you don’t believe Jesus is your Savior (not saying you have to) then that’s what happens. I believe in what I want to, and you shouldn’t be telling me to “re-evaluate my beliefs”. I don’t think that’s going to happen any time soon. I believe in the religion I want, and that’s all that matters to me. I admit, sometimes I doubt the Lord! But a religion is something you want to believe in and Christianity is what I like to believe. And all you people trying to correct me – you are most likely just trying to win this argument and I really don’t care at this point if I win or lose. I’m just trying to get a point across – and you don’t tell me what to do. Obviously you guys care about my comments if you keep replying to it! SO PLEASE STOP you guys are really mean to me.
And saying that Jesus didn’t exist CERTAINLY didn’t hurt my feelings….
“And does anybody realize that I’m only 13??? Don’t waste your time arguing with a teen”
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No, man, just no. If you post something rude, you can’t then say people shouldn’t have wasted their time replying. Plenty of older people post things that just fell out of their brains, seemingly without reading, so I don’t think anyone realised your age.
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Sorry about your feelings. If you want to avoid rude and ignorant comments, stay off the internet.
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This has come across as harsher than I intended. My bad.
Heh heh heh… disser got pwnd
um, no. all is true, none made up. END OF STORY, STFU!
Should be easy to prove then…
Heh, if it could be proven, it would be science, not faith. Man, I wish it could be proven…
Oh, I’m so glad that it can’t be proven. Can you just imagine how unbelievably horrible it would be if the god of the bible were real? I cringe at the thought of living my life and then being subjected to living forever–whether it be in hell or heaven. Forever is a really long time–longer than I want to be around.
god is loving, yet he is just too, so he has to punish sinners or he is not just
Jesus existed. Not only did he exist but other history texts that are non religious state he did. Even if you don’t belive in him you have to belive he existed. It’s like gravity. You can say he didn’t but it still will pull you down when you jump. You can’t deny it by not beliving in it.
You realize, though, that the difference between gravity and Jesus is that gravity can be demonstrated and observed. Show me Jesus.
Nice one. I love the stuff they tell people at church that either doesn’t make sense or contradicts itself.
There are NO authentic non-historical texts that state he did exist, except for one passing mention that could have been some other guy with the same name. Seriously, dude, look it up.
Actually the entire Bible is authored by Jesus Christ see 1 cor. 2:16-17, which describes itself as being the ‘mind of Christ’
Also in John chapter 1, he identifies the Word (the Bible) as being one and the same with christ (in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God, and he became flesh and dwelt among us, the only begotten of the Father)
Hebrews 4:12 describes it again as being alive and powerful, a critic of the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Please check your facts before you criticize or pass judgment on the most powerful and meaningful piece of literature that the human race has ever had at it’s disposal.
If you choose not to read it for yourself or investigate the absolute truth written it’s on every page, at the end of time you too will bow the knee and agree that it is correct as Christ Himself returns to establish justice in the world (see book of Revelation)
Way to go “veritas”!!!! Dang you spit the TRUTH like it was nothing!! BEAUTIFUL! I really find this page very disturbing….what has America become??? People wanna talk about how God doesn’t exist and then they wanna argue about the things written in the BIble wernt written by God….hmmm….i bet everyone that is saying that CANT even understand the Bible even if they tried to read it!!! But of course they can’t! And that’s why there are so many Bible’s being translated! They keep trying harder & harder to make it easier for the world to undestand! But that was a mistake cuz now you have ppl with another excuse why it’s not true! But it’s just an EXCUSE!!! It’s not the truth and “veritas” since you know scripture so good, than we both know that the world will never come to understand the Bible unles you have his Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you…Am I right??? And not only that but God tells us that the world didn’t accept Jesus so therefore neither will we be accepted in this world for as long as we live! Christians get persecuted all over this world for his namesake!!! B/c we’ve found truth and We know we have something worth living for and dying for. JESUS CHRIST….LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS…THE ALMIGHTY GOD….THE ALPHA AND OMEGA…B/C HE IS THE BEGINNING AND HE IS THE END!!! God started the world and He will be ending it! Sure you don’t have to believe that…and God gives you that choice, but he also gives two dominions….heaven and hell…and you only go to one! Seriously ppl….computers can be smarter than humans…so obvisiously whoever created the world is greater than we are!!! Im sorry, but people most be real ignorant or just plain stupid not to believe in some God or anotha! Really!!! People say that we’re advancing, but only with technology cuz clearly ppl are advancing in their own knowledge but not in TRUTH!!! I hope ppl will start to wake up and find the REAL TRUTH and their REAL PURPOSE in living before it’s too late.
correction, 100%, 0%
Why is Christianity the only religion/belief system that is open game for a discussion like this? Why is Christianity hated so much?
Fine, here you go, ahem… All religions are non-sensical gibberish, and each one makes just as much sense as the other. I hate and detest any and all religions.
I don’t know if you’ll ever read this, Squid, and you’ll probably only get
angry at me, but I want to say something. As a young Christian, I was at
first extremely angered by your hostility toward religion-mine specifically.
but, after thinking about it, I realized that you were most likely hurt in
some way that caused you to loath God as much as you do. I won’t ask you
to explain, or even to give two cents about some stupid kids’ opinion; but
please at the very least let up on the insults. They hurt, and, to be perfectly
honest, your hatred and anger left me shaking. I don’t expect you to
believe me, but I’m gonna tell you about my father.
He grew up hating the world for hurting him and judging him for his mental
disability. He hated God blamed him for it all most of his young life. Then,
while cleaning his grandfathers’ camper shell with gasoline, his
grandfather turned on the light, causing a spark which ignited the camper
and it exploded. After getting out of the fire, his grandpa and a neighbor came, standing over him and asking how he was-he was conscious all
through this. Suddenly, a strange man appeared over him, asking if he
believed in Jesus Christ. My father answered “sort of” and looked at his
grandfather, and then the neighbor, and they were looking right at the man.
At a later time he had asked his grandfather about it, but he said there
wasn’t another man, other than the neighbor. And according to the doctors,
he was supposed to be dead, and if not dead, he should have lost his right
arm and lost all vision. But he’s here alive, whole and now a full-on
believer. Call me a liar, insult me, or just ignore me completely. Your
choice.
P.S. I’m gonna pray for ya, dude…
Don’t hate me for saying that.
I’m fine with you praying for people without them asking for you to, as long as you don’t mind me doing a few pagan rituals for you. Is that cool?
Some how, knowing that they actually DO say that it’sok to stretch the ‘truth’ when witnessing, I’d say Tilly is safely ignored… But please, feel free to dance naked under the next full moon for us both…
No Tilly is not “safely ignored” ppl get mad at christians for pushing their religion on them but yet christians can be kind and caring….and they still get degraded! People need to grow up!!!
epic win!
MAJOR WIN TO TILLY CROW! Well said, all of it. I support each and every word.
Tilly, I don’t understand the point of your story. Are you saying that the hallucination of a person who, in your own words, was “mentally disabled”, overcome with gas fumes and had just been knocked silly is somehow proof of something? Or was it the part where he was okay that was meant to be meaningful? What about all of the other people who were killed or injured in an accident, did Jesus just like them less?
OMG, tillycrow. Take a step back, and you might see the flippancy in Squid’s comments (no offense intended, Squid, or assumptions made about how earnest you might or might not be).
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Perhaps you could just choose to not feel hurt at the opposition of your beliefs?
Don’t forget that the Christians have pushed their religion down the throats of man kind. Ya know, they killed the non-believers…..Also, the bible is soooooo friggin violent. If you are a Christian, then be a Christian. Follow the bible 100%. Don’t do what you think you should do, do what the bible tells you to do. Like sell your daughter to slave labor, or at a VERY young age, sell her off to be a wife and have children… stone the non-believers, make sacrifices, don’t work on Sunday, even if your life and family’s lives depended on it… God will smite you by taking everything you love, and you’ll be left alive to suffer. But remember, God loves you, but if you piss him off, he will become jealous (which is one of his names) and destroy you!!!
Sorry, I don’t believe in gods who claim to be loving only to punish their children for being human.
Thank you so much, whoever posted this graph.
Ignore me, I just re-read Squids comment. Thought you meant you were roused to comment. Oops, my misreading your statement brought a whole new meaning…
Christianity does not corner the market on promoting violence and death on heretics, however they are the only annoying bastards who have roused me from sleeping off a hangover on Sunday morning. So I guess that ticks the hate-o-meter a tad bit more so into the x-tian zone lol
Try answering the door naked carrying a knife… that usually mean they don’t come back…
@ Squid:
Just checkin – your date stamp is 3rd April 2009. Where in the world is that a Sunday? I’m writing this in UK on 5th April 2009, this is Sunday!
He’s hung over today… when he posted that he was working on his Sunday hangover…
Hi. I think you are thinking of the Koran. If you read the Bible, you would relaize that most of your examples are not in the Bible and the ones that do show up, you have twisted terribly. No one in the Bible was stoned for being a non-believer. God never promoted stoning. No daughter’s were sold into slavery. Many people (like all the Isrealites) were captured and forced into slavery. Not working on Sunday at all? Legalism, not what we are in to. My God doesn’t kill you because you pissed him off. My God loves you and dies a gruesome death for you while you still are spitting in his face. I was a critic, too. But those are lies. Utter lies.
Oh, so you’re saying x-tianity has never been used to promote violence on others? You’re telling me that the Bible does not say “Do not suffer a witch to live” Sorry Coram, the bible is full of contradictory statements that tell us to honor our mother & father in one breath, and the next Jesus says he has come to set son against father, daughter against mother etc. And if he loves us so damn much, why is there eternal damnation waiting for those of us who exercise our free will? The only book I’ve read more violent than the old testament is the Iliad.
We are to honor our father and mother. Jesus said that the family would be divided in Luke 12:52. It’s a simple fact. look at all these crazy comments? People divide over this. Jesus knew it would happen,he’s not dumb. But you can disagree and still be respectful. You can’t tell me you agree on everything with your parents?
God does love. “For the wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” Romans 6:23
This means: man sins. It’s what we do. Sin is rebellion against God. Treason against God. Treason demands punishment, yes? That means not heaven. Hell. Death. It’s what man earns by sinning. A gift is something undeserved. God loves you enough to send his son to die to atone for sin, because there must be an atonement or God is not just. God is merciful to take it on himself in the form of his son, Jesus. Now, a gift is also something you must accept to receive, not just stare at it on the table. And to receive the gift is to receive Christ, and to receive Christ is a life change. That is where the love is.
A lot of people don’t understand. A lot more people (especially in America) claim to be Christians and are not. Maybe they believe God exists, but thats as far as the relationship goes, and that’s not enough. Thats why there are several hypocritical Christians, they aren’t even Christians. That is where the Ghandi quote comes in. Also, even real Christians screw up. We don’t expect perfection. We all fall. And we ask your forgiveness, but you should know there is more there than most people think.
Now, most people hate this. There are people who don’t want to believe in God, let alone submit to him in this way, and they can do that. A person can deny gravity all they want, but it doesn’t make it go away. Doesn’t make it less real.
I’m sorry if you don’t yet have eyes to see or ears to hear, but hopefully you will receive some soon. In Christ name I pray. amen.
I have eyes and ears and since I have stopped trusting in an invisible deity they are more open now than ever before. 2 things turned me off to x-tianity, 1) The lie of free will. If god is all knowing and all seeing and knows whether or not I’m going to heaven or hell before I’m even born, I have no free will over my own pre determined destiny and my time here is just a puppet going through the motions. The very definition of free will is having the power to decide for yourself your own ultimate destiny.
2)If you want my allegiance and loyalty enough to have me suffer persecution and death in your name if necessary, you better damn well manifest yourself in a sufficient way to prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are the one true god. If you can’t do that for your loyal followers than you do not love them, you are not all powerful, and more than likely, you do not exsist.
you don’t seem to have much trust or loyalty
Are you my relative, spouse, friend, boss, coworker? That is an awfully uniformed statement you just made considering you have no idea who I am. Trust and loyalty is a two way street. If I expect you to die for me and to suffer persecution for me, I had better damn well prove to you I am worth it, none of this guessing as to whether I am real or not, and the reward had better be tangeble as well, and anything would be better than how the bible describes heaven. Who wants to spend eternity dancing around a throne prasing something that hold the threat of eternal damnation over your head?
He doesn’t hold a threat over your head. Tell me one place in the Bible where God threatens anyone with Hell. He discusses it because its real. Hell is exactly what he doesn’t want for you.
Trust. Loyalty. Faith.
You don’t trust him to be in control. You don’t trust that he has any sort of good in mind for you. You don’t trust him to tell you the truth.
You apparently aren’t loyal to him. You are lashing out at him in word and action.
Faith. Similar to trust. Faith is believing in what one can not see. Why should God cater to people demanding signs of him? Sign based faith is weak.
oh, so a veiled treat isn’t a threat? So if I tell my kids of spankings if they don’t obey my rules, and how much I don’t want to spank them, isn’t the implication that I will spank them if they misbehave still there.
Sign based faith is weak? So if I’m playing poker and I call my opponent and I show my cards and he refuses to show his yet says he wins and everyone around him says the same, am I to have faith without proof that they are all telling the truth? that is exactly the same as x-tians telling me that their god is the one true god with no real proof. Trust, loyalty, and faith are earned over time. You can pay all the lip service you want and say I love you a million time over but it doesn’t mean anything without actions that prove it.
*sigh*
Coram, you really need to dust off your Bible if you are going to continue to claim that it doesn’t say things that it clearly does. The New Testament has over 160 references to hell, nearly 70 of which are attributed to Jesus. Not all of these are explicit threats perse, but the very nature of hell makes mention of it ominous at least. And there ARE explicit threats, a few of which I will list since you asked.
1. Mt 13:42: “And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
2. Mt 25:41: “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” This passage relates to Jesus’ judgment of all the world.
3. Revelation 21:8: “But the fearful, and unbelieving … shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.”
It is fine that you have a faith that seems to offer you comfort and hope, but it disconcerting that you seem to be basing that faith on a highly selective interpretation of the Bible, which has as many problematic passages as it does inspiring passages. You do your faith a disservice when you refuse to acknowledge the dark side of your religion and the problems that certain passages have caused over the centuries.
Wasn’t Jesus a sign of God’s love? Thusly, if you believe in Jesus, a sign, doesn’t that also mean your faith is weak?
If your god doesn’t want us to go to hell, then why did he create it? Seems a bit stupid to me…..
Religious convictions nonwithstanding, I always thought the concept of
free will vs. fate was very interesting.
Now, for the sake of argument, say there IS an all-knowing God and
He knows where you’ll go when you die, and so on and so forth. Does
that really necessarily mean your fate is predetermined, or that this
All-Knowing God already knows how you’ll react to different situations
in your life, or what decisions you’ll make out of your own free will?
Anyway, I’m not arguing either side. Just presenting the other.
1. Because God liked Abel’s animal sacrifice more than Cain’s vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. Gen 4:8
2. God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and “all flesh wherein there is breath of life.” He plans to drown them all. Gen 6:7, 17
3. God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram’s lie. Gen 12:17
4. God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. Gen 15:9-10
5. God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining “fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven.” Well, almost everyone — he spares the “just and righteous” Lot and his family. 19:24
6. God threatens to kill Abimelech and his people for believing Abe’s lie. 20:3-7
7. God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac’s throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. Only an evil God would ask a father to do that; only a bad father would be willing to do it. 22:2-13
**And that’s just a counting of violent acts perpetrated by GOD (not including all the incredibly violent and horrible things men do to each other) recorded in the FIRST HALF of the FIRST BOOK of the Bible. You don’t have to like that it is violent, but you can’t deny that it very much so IS.
SilverIris
Even though x-tians like to quote the old testement when it suits them they hate for it to be used against them claiming Jesus changed all that violent stuff, If you have any new testement violence please share that as well.
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” Mt 10:34-36
Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. Mt 11:20-24
Jesus will send his angels to gather up “all that offend” and they “shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Mt 13:41-42, 50
Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It’ll be just like that when he returns. Mt 24:37
Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. Mk 5:12-13
Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) Mk 7:9-10
God strikes Zacharias dumb and mute for doubting the angel Gabriel’s words. Lk 1:20
Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves “with many stripes.” Lk 12:46-47
Gee, what a surprise you were able to find it so easily and quickly (dripping with sarcasm)
And that’s just a short list, pulled from the Gospels only. I didn’t even have to touch Revelation, which is kind of a shame because it is freaking awesome in its craziness.
you missed Ananais and Sapphia…
Silver Iris, I can tell that you are pretty dang knowledgeable of the bible and its contents, but I have to disagree with most of the violent things that you stated were from the New Testament. I agree, you are true in most of your saying, but
I decided to actually take your verse references, and look em up.
I have concluded, that more than half of your list is taken out of context.
#1, I couldn’t come up with any other value than the verses face value.
#2, Jesus addresses the cities in which He did his “mightiest of works”, and how they did not repent. Furthermore, saying that if He had done said miracles in Tyre and Sidon, that they would have repented long ago. So Jesus isn’t just condemning them.
#3, Jesus is explaining his parables, and his explanations of the judgement to come. With the way you put it, this verse is made to seem heinous and extremely violent. He will gather up the sinners, and give them what they lived their lives for, and do the same with those who believed in Him.
#4, They way you worded your explanation is again messed up. He isn’t going to have a good feeling, or more or less indifferent, about sending people to hell when he comes back. He is stating that the actions and sins would be as vast and evil as the days before the flood. If you introduced a certain species of an animal(just painting a picture, not saying humans are animals) into a habitat, and it proved to thrive in the environment, but was also harmful. destructive, and had no disregard for anything it did, would you not take that animal away? Or would you put them down, seeing as they would not change their ways? But wouldn’t you leave the ones who behaved, and didn’t go around trashing everything?
#5, He sent a legion of demons into a heard of pigs because they begged him. “10 Also he begges Him earnestly that he would not send them out of the country.”(my Bible translation says country, others might say abyss, or hell or whatever). Before, he commanded the demons to leave a man they were tormenting.
#6, Not for disobedient children, but for those who “curse their father or their mother. And I do believe, to curse someone in that day and age, is far more extreme than in this day and age.
#7, He makes him mute, not dumb, just mute. Picture this, Gabriel, an angel from God, appears to you and tells you that you are going to recieve something you have been spending most of your married life trying to get (a child), and for some reason, you tell him, even though you know he is a messenger for someone who can do anything and everything thing, that you don’t think it’s gonna happen. He was punished for not believing, and he was restored after he wrote that his son would be named John, like the angel told him.
#8, Again, totally wrong. In this passage, Jesus is telling a parable about a man who leaves his household in his servants care. The beginning of the parable is told of what the servant’s fate would be if he kept it in good care, as if it was his own or something, and his fate was good. The second part, which is the one you referenced. In the second part of the passage, the servant turns evil and wicked after he realizes his master is late, and starts getting drunk, and beating the other servants, and having his way with his household. Now when the master returns, he isn’t going to just slap the guy on the wrist and say “bad boy”, he will severely punish the wicked servant, if not put him to death.
I realize that most of the explanations I gave, were more contextual and giving reason behind the violence that you briefly touched on. Now don’t think I am dissing on you, or making more arguments, it’s just that you gave bits and pieces, and not giving reason or incentive into your references.
I respect you for actually taking the time to look up( or remember, or whatever you did) and list your argument for the Bible being violent, but it isn’t senseless, like you make it seem. You seem like a good person, and you probably know a lot about the Bible. You should try to gather what you thihnk about it, not what other opinions are forced onto yours by others.
Lol-Cooki,
It is true that I only cited short passages of violence and did not provide full contextual support for them. And while context can be extremely valuable for understanding the full nature of a passage, it doesn’t alter that passages that are violent in nature actually exist in the New Testament, something that Coram was insisting wasn’t true.
I see your point, and I do agree on that a lot of the Bible is full of voilence.
But in reality, most of the Bible is historical accounts, and war and violence is like throughout history of man as a staple of our ways.
And as a Christian, I don’t mind all the violence, since I am a testosterone fill teenage guy it isn’t very different for me.
Anyway, it was a good time chatting with you. Glad to see we didn’t make it into a huge argument over this like most ppl would. Chow.
lol, they’e either knowledgeable or using google XD
I have to comment on #7. What you say could be seen as truth or seen as a thing to come and to see if you would follow all of his commandments. Other than that, you are correct. The Old Testiment was very violent.
@caoam: the spanish inquisition, the crusadas(or “holy” wars) etc… mean nothing to you?
Try reading Exodus or Deuteronomy
Great job “Coram”….God’s TRUTH is in you….b/c certaintly you have his Word in your heart! keep standing true!
Very nice. Did you learn all that yourself, or are all those things you listed just other little things you’ve heard about the Bible? Because what the Bible ACTUALLY says is something quite contrasted with your very dim view of it. The commandment to not work on Sunday is mentioned nowhere in the New Testament, and Jesus did work on Sunday. Pharisees wanted to stone a woman and Jesus told them that whoever was without sin should cast the first stone. Sacrifices should no longer be made, nobody sells their family members… Give actual research a try, you mind be astounded at what you find.
umm he listed the book chapter and verse, what more do you want? So Anti, would you agree the bible is contradictory and as a whole is neary impossible to follow to the letter?
You aren’t supposed to follow it to the letter. Taking it literally would be like taking an idiom literally. Which we all know would be stupid.
Oh goody, so now we can pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow? The Old Testament most certainly does contain things like that. Why can you follow one part of the Bible but not the other? Please explain
“Don’t forget that the Christians have pushed their religion down the throats of man kind.”
As opposed to Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and every other religion known to mankind.
They just sit at home all day and don’t proselytize at all, right?
I’ve never had anyone but x-tians come to my door, I was however approached by a Hari Krishna in the airport. But other than that, no other faith has roused me from my slumber early in the am. I have been to Muslim, Hindu, and Buddist countries during my Navy days, and at no time did anybody try to convert me or ramble on about how their faith was so great.
so troo… *totally agreed with squid*
Hindus don’t tend to tout for converts, and Jews positively discourage you converting…
Yeah, all those damn Hindu proselytizers sure get to me. They’re as bad as Buddhists sometimes
Because the Bible records history as in much of the Old Testament does NOT mean that those things were approved by God. The fact these horrible and violent things are there serve as a way to show us the selfishness and sinful nature and man and how God can redeem and turn things around for good. A good example of this would be Joseph being sold into slavery by his brothers, a thing he could resented them for the rest of his life and eld much bitterness, but through the grace of God was able to still love them and not hold and ill will towards them and later, since he had been sold into Egypt, was able to use his position of power to save the people from a severe famine. There are countless examples such as this in the Bible of where God is right and man is dead wrong. As for not working on Sunday, anyone who else ever read the gospel knows that one of the things Jesus was hated for was he preached it was okay to heal and help people on the Sabbath, that the old law was dead and God’s new law of love was in.
I’m really not gifted enough to speak eloquently on the subject but there are plenty that are, and to make the assumption that Christians are blind believers, haven’t done their research, and that there is no truth behind the Bible couldn’t be more dead wrong. Man by its sinful nature wants to live without God so even myself have tried to say the Bible probably wasn’t truthful but even the harshest of critics once they dive in, get ride of their pride, and be willing to actually find out the truth behind God’s word instead of immediately dismissing find themselves inevitably finding that Jesus is the only way. The only way to dismiss God and reason that he doesn’t exist is to not want him to exist and not be willing to give it any thought besides a quick dismissal, when in reality there is FAR more evidence for the truthfulness of the Bible than anything any other religion or atheism especially has to offer.
Did you just imply that atheists are living a lie? Yes there’s SOOO much truthfulness in the bible, and it’s not contradictory in the slightest, and those dinosaurs were just put there to test our faith (just like goats) and all science is a smudge under the microscope, *sigh* seriously man think about both sides first and be an arbiter, stop being a fanboy to god.
“when in reality there is FAR more evidence for the truthfulness of the Bible than anything any other religion or atheism especially has to offer.”
Atheism has nothing “to offer”. It’s not a religion, get it? That was by far the stupidest thing I’ve read all week, and that’s saying a lot.
you did awesome…way better than any way i could have explained the TRUTH to someone who simply doesn’t want to believe in God! You diffiantly nailed it. Don’t let these ppl get to you!
Wow. I wasn’t expecting that many responses. For those who say that the Bible is violent and tells you to sell your daughters into slavery. Where is your support for that?
Not saying that many many many man, people have done horrible things in the name of Christianity and God in general. But the Bible itself does not condone those things. In any case, I apologize on behalf of Christians for talking so much and not living how the Bible really does say to live. I really think that people would have a different opinion if Christians stopped purely preaching and actually did what they were suppose to do.
Most x-tains are like the Apostles, they swear faith up and down when it’s easy but when push comes to shove just like Peter & Judas they deny & betray their faith when an easier path makes itself available.
I have already posted several verses of Old and New Testament violence, but per your request, here is where the Bible discussing selling daughters into slavery:
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.” (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
So, um, yes… not only is the Bible condoning the action of selling your daughter as a slave, it is actually prescribing all the conditions under which it is perfectly acceptable. It amazes me how many of you who profess to follow the Bible are incapable of looking and really seeing just how problematic many many of its passages are.(Don’t get me wrong, it has many many good passages too, but it is very bad theology to ignore the dark parts and the proclaim to the world “The Bible never says that!” Because, um, yes it does.)
P!issng in the wind, my friend… p!ssing in the wind…
I think a lot of energy has been spent on this thread. When reading it, please keep in mind that it is a Jewish Book, written for Jews, thousands of years ago. People do not think the same way, and do not hold the same values and you may.
Yes, there is violence and bad things in the Bible. They are there to help you understand how someone made a mistake – so you don’t have to make the same one. When someone says, “God can’t forgive me, I’ve done so many bad things”. You have definitive proof that he can, because he has with so many people.
Re: Slavery – it wasn’t necessarily like you may have seen in the movie ‘Roots’. Remember that much of society was agrarian. If you had a bad season, you didn’t eat. There is no social security. There are no food banks. You just die. So, if you are a Jew, have a family who’s starving, you can sell them (and yourself) into slavery as a trade for food, lodging, etc. It’s a business contract. And, every 7th year is the year of Jubilee – where all the slaves are freed.
Bottom line: the Bible isn’t meant to address everything. It’s sole purpose is to help the reader get into a right relationship with God. Social ills such as slavery take second fiddle to that. In fact, 1 COR 7:21 talks about how much being a slave or not doesn’t matter. This time on earth is temporary. Choose wisely while you’re here, because what you choose on earth is what you get for eternity. God doesn’t send people to Hell. People choose hell and he loves them enough to honor their decision.
And yes, we Christians are just as screwed up as everyone else. Please don’t judge God by my action or inaction. Research the heck out of it. Ask the hard questions. Dig deep. You’ll find that Christianity most closely resembles reality. Even atheism or the religion of science doesn’t come close.
I apologize if I’m doing a poor job of representing. I’m just trying to shine what light I have in a dark world. Thanks!
“the religion of science”
I find that VERY insulting. There is absolutely no point of comparison between religion and science. Scientists follow the scientific method. Religious people follow faith. Those two things are incredibly different, and by comparing them you’re showing how much you DON’T KNOW about science. You’re an ignorant when it comes to science, please don’t discuss it.
Science is just a long series of revisions.
Closer approximations to modelling reality would be a more accurate assessment.
Right, because people’s interpretations of the bible aren’t.
I guess somehow they must be intertwined. Science maintains that matter cannot be created from nothing, so that leaves only one possibility, that something of a higher order created it. It may not have been the Christian God, or even any of the other ‘gods’, but something that does not follow science and natural law must have created everything.
That’s my take on it…but I don’t really know if I’m making sense.
You aren’t, and science doesn’t say that. You might want to actually learn about physics instead of just spouting nonsense about it.
I think the problem with science is that people twist it around to interpret it in whatever way suits their interests. Then again, the same thing happens with religions.
People *try* to twist scientific findings, but science itself, as a process rather than an assortment of facts, can’t really be twisted. Mostly what people do is what Lol did – hear some pronouncement regarding what ‘science’ says, assume it’s true because they trust the source or else they’ve heard it more than once, run it through their limited understanding (limited due to insufficient education) and regurgitate it as some kind of truth. None of which has anything to do with science but does resemble how religion works (believe, trust authority, don’t think for yourself, etc).
This is why science education is so vitally important in our schools, and it kills me that it’s so underfunded and under constant attack by creationists and other religious halfwits that see it as a threat.
You’re right.
Brother i support ur comment a 100%!!!! SCIENCE is kewl, but it’s pure crap when it starts contradicting what MY GOD did and said! Science is pplz own understanding but christianity is based on GOD”S understanding!!!!!!!!!
As to the violence aspect, the whole part about when they left Egypt to settle the Promised Land. You do realize there was people already living there and they waged war on them to get them out? It’s kind of the basis for the whole Middle East conflict.
Excuse? Islam gets its fair share of crap too. And before you retort that it’s because they’re so violent (the most common reply I get), I’d beg you to look back in the history of Christianity *cough*Crusades*cough*
Muslim terrorists have killed more people in the last decade than the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition combined, my friend.
Really now?
Point to Dillon for the stupidest comment so far! So not even close….
R u serious? U eitha need a math or history lesson…
Why is Christianity the only religion/belief system that is open game for a discussion like this? Why is Christianity hated so much?
Because if you do this graph with the Koran your headquarters get blown up.
Baaaaahahhaha! There’s a lot that’s not funny about your comment, CG700, but a lot more that is funny.
“Why is Christianity the only religion/belief system that is open game for a discussion like this? Why is Christianity hated so much?”
Possibly because Christians say so many asinine, obviously false things like “Why is Christianity the only religion/belief system that is open game for a discussion like this?”.
Lying over and over again tends to get you disliked.
fisrt
Fail
What the submitter didn’t realize was that Jesus was also made up by other men. Amen.
HALLELUJA!!!!!!
Prove it.
go away first.
lol
still waiting….
If you did your research, you’d know that the story of Jesus was plagiarized. There were many myths written in BC about virgin births, walking on water, healing the blind, etc.
There may or may not be evidence for the existence of a man named ‘Jesus’ during that time period, but other than the Bible, what is the evidence that he did everything that he was believed to have done? Besides, I’ve known at least 2 or 3 guys names ‘Jesus’ and that doesn’t mean they can walk on water. I know someone named Ganapati too, but he doesn’t have the head of an elephant, he can’t dance, and doesn’t play any instruments.
Jesus the son of god was made up by other men, just as god was made up by other men.
Except for all the secular archeological proof that Jesus was in fact a real person.
Citation needed.
Oh, there’s tons of secular evidence for Jesus’ existence.
And by “tons”, I mean “some”.
And by “some”, I mean “a little”.
And by “a little”, I mean “none”.
Why is this confusing? Only references to a person that may or may not have been called Jesus exist outside the biblical writings. This does not disprove his existence, just proves that the people who could write(few) did not find him important. His importance grew when the church grew, making all writings about him religious. Then the religion decided to suppress, kill, etc. Then that religion decided to forget they did that and say another religion is the terroristic one.
you see what I did there? it was fun.
Actually, it’s proven he did exist, and Son of God or not, he did go around preaching the word. He was then crucified by the Roman government. The rest may or may not be true.
My only real comment on this graph is that it should have been a pie graph.
Cite the proof or own it…
What 666 also doesn’t realize or recognize is that this graph was also made up by other men. AMEN
The bible is really not one of my favourite works of fiction. Some guy in sandals wanders about doing parlour tricks. Read it twice and I still don’t understand the ending.
Ryan, it is like 2001: A Space Odyssey. That ending freaked me out, too.
More like 1% to 99%.
Amen.
I don’t know about that, but 25% is pretty generous imo.
And the bible beating religious right is voting strong I see. This is a great graph!
Not necessarily, I’m not too religious, and of Jewish ethnicity, but I just don’t find this amusing.
Good job! God and Jesus are cool but the fan club? Not so much.
Mahatma Gandhi…. “I do not reject your Christ, I love your Christ.It is just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
I LOVE that quote. It’s true. So many Christians don’t understand the true meaning of being a “Christian”.
In fact, we even tend to openly attack eachother’s beliefs over the tiniest difference — why do we act that way? Who knows?
Why can’t we all pool our resources into promoting true Christian values instead of attacking everyone for their differences in beliefs?
As Seth Macfarline recently added on his show (and yes, I know he was reffering to Bryan’s atheism, but I still find it applies) “I hate seeing people killing each other over something they’re too stupid to understand.”
I’m not so offended by this but why is such a thing even on graphjam? Fail imo
If you are christian you should be offended. I am offended that you are not offended.
Contrary to popular belief the Bible is the only truth. The lie comes from what other people disern to be true. Christians and non-Christians alike make false statements about the Bible all the time. The misquote it, they twist it to mean something else and then people start believing those lies, until people lose faith in something that no longer makes sense because they only believe bits from all the lies coated in what is said to be truth. I could choose to be offended by this, but it is more sad to me to see not only someone thought it would be funny to post this, but so many more commenting on how dumb Christians are.
There is a difference between dumb and ignorant.
Not much
actually, it’s a HUGE difference. You can have someone with the IQ of Albert Einstein who has never heard of religion — does that make them dumb? No. It makes them ignorant.
Its a paradox really since Christians would consider you the ignorant one for not knowing the truth, and you would think the opposite for thinking we were believing a lie.
Wow! No disrespect to you but who the hell decided that the bible is the only truth? Are you insane?
…
I don’t care what you say, I still think the graph is hella funny. If you don’t find it funny then move on.
Didn’t you get the memo on the fact bats are birds and that the way to get stripy goats is by exposing them to barred shadows?
It says so right in the book…
As for moving on this is a free forum to post to, I am entitled to express my opinons and beliefs like everyone else.
Drew! your awesome! way to stand up for what you believe in! JESUS is
awesome!
You are an idiot.
I am offended by this graph. It’s not true. It’s an opinion. Yes, all of these graphs are just opinions, but this is the first one I’ve seen making fun of many people’s religious beliefs. I’m sure that many more people than have commented here are offended.
If someone told you they believed they had a relationship with an invisible, dead, man, who was his own father, and the only force for good in the universe, called George, how much ‘respect’ would you give him?
Epic….just…..epic
Agnostic though I may be, I think the double standard athiests/agnostics hold when it comes to disliking how religions try to force their beliefs on other people is pathetic.
You mean there are agnostics and atheists out there trying to change things from “Under God” to “Under NO God” or “maybe Under God or maybe not” and I haven’t even heard about it? Dang – so much for my campaign to change things to “Under Thor”…
.
With regard to this graph – while not a Biblical scholar by any means, I was somehow under the impression that Jesus was not a big contributor to the Old Testament…
(tic) Jesus retroactively wrote the Old Testament!
On a MAC PC. It’s been proven time and time again.
With the new Time Machine, available on that newest version of OSX.
What about under “The Gods”?
or under deity? or heaven? or the sky? or in the universe? Under the sun? Under the sea *starts humming*
According to x-tain mythology Jesus is his own dad and the holy ghost so, that being the case, Jesus took part in all the killing and bloodshed of the old testement. Now that I think about it considering all the murder and suffering god caused, Jesus deserved what he got if he truly was god. On the other hand, If Jesus was himself and his dad and he started changing the laws that he made in old testementy times, than the supposedly perfect god was fallable and therefore not a perfect being. Of course this was stated in the very first book when god said he made man in his own image, IMO the proof is in the pudding I mean look at us!
Jesus is his own Father… Thats inbreeding at its finest.
Love how Atheists try to compare the Christian God to Thor. It’s really quite funny. Thor was a God created by a warrior culture to satisfy their own culture. The Christian God is a general God that satisfies a general populations of Humans all over the world(or is meant to). They are nothing alike. Thor was created simply because its followers needed a symbol to abide by pertaining to what they usually did…..fight.
The Christian God is a symbol of general Human nature, culture, morals, and just plain life. Theres really no other God like him. (No other that was made up) And don’t say what about the Muslim God like some said in a previous post, they are literally the same thing, just worshiped differently. And of course the Jewish God is the same as well. Theres no “other” God like this one, so to compare Thor to God is an Atheistic misleading argument.
So, you’re saying you wouldn’t be at all offended if, when asked to pledge allegiance to your country, you were obliged to say “under Thor” because he isn’t a “real” God like yours? You could easily say the words because you’re strong in your belief? And that it’s ok to expect others to abide with the majority even if their beliefs are different? You’re fine with all that? As long as the majority of the people were Thor worshipers, you’d be willing to just go along, right? Is it that only people who believe in your God can love their country?
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Would you be willing to grant that the people who worshiped Thor thought he was just as important etc. as you feel about the One God? Or that people who believe differently than you might feel just as strongly about those beliefs?
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Did you know that you frequently use the word “atheist” as a pejorative? What are you afraid of, exactly? Did an atheist kill your puppy or something? I always wonder when people have such a huge chip on their shoulder – it makes me think they’re avoiding an exploration of how they really feel/think.
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And to be a little more accurate, the Christian God is really the Jewish God, not the other way around – they have the precedence. As a good Christian, I’m sure you don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter – after all, it was the Christian Church’s co-option of those pagan celebrations that drove the Puritans to the New World…
No, you’re missing the point. Thor is like many many other Gods that were made up. Such as Aphrodite, Ares, Forseti, Hestia, whatever in which these Gods were created to pertain to a specific thing. There’s no other God like the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God, it has no similar counterpart in what it exists for. So whether that God is real or not, you can’t say “well if you believe in THAT god then why not THIS god too??” as that God exists for an entirely different purpose, it wasn’t just “made up” lets say to selfishly serve a certain people or lifestyle. Which makes it very much more believable to exist.
And here I thought I was making myself clear – I’m not saying (and nowhere above do I even hint) that if you believe in the One God you should believe in all other Gods that people have worshiped. The only point I’ve been trying to make is that other beliefs are equally valid, even those which don’t include any God.
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Well, actually, the point I was trying to make is that when people who believe there is no God (i. e. atheists) ask that references to God be removed, they’re accused of pushing they’re own agenda and trying to make this an “atheist state”. If they were really trying to push for atheism, they’d ask that the “under God” be replaced with “under NO God”, do you see the difference? In other words, how does removing a reference to God automatically make something an atheist anthem? If you have a conversation with someone that doesn’t reference God do you worry that you’re slipping into atheism?
zomg i lol’d
http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=3843024
this one is better.
Omg, the typo on that one kills me. And it is not all bs. That ‘love thy neighbor’ thing should be universal. And it is not like christianity has a stranglehold on that idea(no matter what they think).
I have read the bible. And the Koran. And the Vedas…well…some of them. I especially like the part of the bible where is says if you have a crushed testicle you can’t enter the synagogue. Great rule.
Can youi give a Chapter/verse siting where that is Stated in Scirpture? (Just kidding Rj don’t get your well read shorts in a not)
I like what you did there. The typo kills him, eh?
I think the pagans have a good one “An ye harm none, do as thou wilt.” That pretty much sums it up, methinks. ^-^ [yes I'm switching up on you, lol]
Spelling fail.
Jesus was made up? Thats why we have so much historical evidence about him…Do you believe the Haulocaust was a hoax, too?
There are more original manuscripts backing up the old and new testament than any other document. On the order of 25,000. The next closest is the Iliad, it only has 1,000ish.
http://www.provethebible.net/prooftest.htm
That’s what I said! excellent. I think you said this first, I just didn’t read on down.
You’ve not actually followed the logic of the site you’re citing, have you?
Half of the answers to objections mentioned on that site begin with ‘the Bible says’.
“There are more original manuscripts backing up the old and new testament than any other document.”
You crack me up.
Wrong, no matter which side you’re on. The graph creator obviously has no idea what is actually in the Bible.
Only 4 out of a minimum of 66 books (assuming the Protestant Christian Bible is what we’re talking about here; include the Apocrypha, and you’ve got many more total books, but none that add anything about Jesus) contain anything that Jesus said. That’s 6% of the books of the Bible. And of course, those 4 books are not just speeches by Jesus. There’s narrative, and lots of other people talk, too. So at best, 3% of the Bible is stuff Jesus said. Assuming other people didn’t just say he said it.
Total fail. Theology and faith notwithstanding.
Thank you levelheaded theologist.
I think the Jeffeson Bible comes to a little more than three percent. But the bulk of the NT is Paul, not Jesus… the only things Jesus really said that seemed to be aimed at the ages are the Beatitudes, the rest seems to be addressing the fact he was crap at picking personnel to follow him…
Hey Unc, I have read most of your many posts here on this subject. Ask yourself why it is that you are so vehemently opposed to anything biblical or Christian. Your caustic posts are vacuous and reveal your poverty of intellect.
You use specious reasoning to bolster an irrational argument about theological precepts you know nothing about. Why are so committed to proving that there is no God? Are you trying to convince us…or yourself? Perhaps if you gathered some information on your own, say reading a book or the Bible, rather than regurgitating some inaccurate and idiotic chatter you heard while watching some talking-head on television, then maybe you could piece together a more convincing argument on behalf of atheism. But thats not really your style, right? Hey, its not too late to seek Him and turn your life around. I once heard that there are no atheists in foxholes…I believe that. Don’t be afraid of the transforming effect of God’s word. FEAR is the primary motive behind all of these ignorant posts on this blog. Do not disparage something that you nothing about.
Unc’s posts make sense though. Nowhere in your post do you make any convincing argument for God, and Fear is the primary motive in Christians too. The fear of God, the fear of Hell, it seems like all you people believe just so you can avoid hell, not because you love your God.
Jesus was either the greatest man to walk the earth, or the greatest con artist.
or a howling nutter, or a Terrorist or thief who got redacted into a God… or maybe is a mythic conglomeration of a number of ‘Messiahs’ into one semi fictive man…
There are any number of likelier origins than your two… and if he was the greatest con man, he’d not have been nailed to a tree for 4 hours of a Friday afternoon…
This graph is both offensive and completely ignorant.
Agreed
Offensive and ignorant? Couldn’t only have come from an American.
I am so glad someone finally said this! AMEN!!!!!!
and amen. God sees all you that criticize and betray Him, and loves you anyway.
Take into consideration Jesus died on the cross for us so we don’t all burn in hell, and eternity of suffering. if you decide to rebuke Him and don’t accept His word, you won’t go to Heaven. Even if you call His holy word bullsh*t, He loves you anyway.
Isn’t that amazing?
(remember, this is written by a 12 year old chick that understands this, so don’t say you are to young to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, cuz I was like 3. )
Say this for salvation (only if u really mean it)
“Lord, I acknowledge that I am a sinner and have broken your laws. Please forgive me and live inside my heart. You are the God who created me and I want to be Yours. Amen”
I just hope when you die Zeus is just as forgiving, although not likely.
Looooollll
If he loved us, why would he require us to love him in order to be with him? If he loved all man, what about the multitudes that died and went to hell BEFORE Jesus was sacrificed?
Dante’s inferno has a pretty good theory about that XD
Anyway, questions like this — that are not answered in the Bible — are the reason I don’t believe in Sola Scriptura. Not everything is answered in the bible, and I’m sick and tired of people using God’s word as a weopen to smash down people’s throats.
People try to act like the Bible is the only source– but it’s not. That’s why I get upset when people argue about the apocrypha, or the Catholic Catechism and everything else.
Your face is both ignorant and completely ignorant.
I meant the double ignorant. LOL No, I didn’t.
Uhh… why is this here? I’ve never seen any other anti-religion or anti-atheism graphs on this site…
Ive seen dozens upon dozens. The internet (and especially this site), is largely agnostic/atheist and Democrat.
The internet is largely more intelligent than the general population.
I have found that the comments made on Youtube make up a vast library of wisdom and discourse…
Only in a Zen koan sense….
Since when did Graphjam completely lower its standards? Whether or not you believe in the Bible or Jesus, Graphjam is about simple daily humor, but this strongly attacks a great number of people on a very personal level.
Please be gracious enough to remove it. This is completely out of line.
“but this strongly attacks a great number of people on a very personal level.”
No, it doesn’t. It merely makes a comment about a book. THAT’S IT. If you take offense, why? Did you write the book? Did your family write the book? Did you translate it? Lighten up! If this graph were about the Greek myths, Norse creation stories, or some schmuck in New York that claimed to find golden plates, would you be so quick to chastise it? It really grinds my gears when somebody plays along with satire UNTIL it lampoons something they believe.
If Jesus saw this graph, he’d probably get a laugh.
Actually, it isn’t just a comment about a book. It states that what the book says (although inaccurately) is untrue and made up. This, alone IS an attack on what plenty of people hold as complete truth. So yes, it is an attack because the poster is blatantly stating that many people are believing in something that’s “made up.”
I’m sorry, I’m not going to lighten up, and as you can read in many other posts, many others are not either. It doesn’t matter if I wrote the book to take this personally. It matters that I believe in it.
It simply is not funny, it’s very personal.
Because a lot of people like the idea, doesn’t make it ‘true’…
In that case, you should never insult the Communist Manifesto – you might upset Marxists!
“the poster is blatantly stating that many people are believing in something that’s ‘made up.’”
First off, let’s be honest, it only says that 75% was made up. Secondly, the graph does not make any assumptions about people’s personal beliefs. Anywhere. The graph is talking about a BOOK. Nowhere will you find a derogatory statement about the readers of the book – you are implying that there is such a statement to support your stance. So I ask you, with the same source material as I have, how can you come to the conclusion I quoted above without making assumptions?
At any rate, why should this website take something down because you find it offensive? I don’t want them to take it down, as don’t find it offensive, and I’d consider myself a Christian. My stance is just as valid as yours, considering the role the Bible has had in my life.
Another thing – if you don’t like the source material, why, then, did you take the time to comment on the graph? If you were really offended, why did you come back, 14 minutes after my post, to re-state your opinion? If something on a website really offended me, I personally wouldn’t come back to the site – why give them the extra visit and move them higher in Internet popularity rankings?
Except that Jesus wrote that book…My God wrote that book. My Savior wrote that book. And it was His gift to me in a world of blind men.
LOL sarcasm win!!
or someone has been huffing drain cleaning products…
Unfortunately, I don’t think it was sarcasm.
Jesus is the SON OF GOD, not GOD (assuming one believes in Christianity) and did not write any part of the Bible. Maybe God is a little pissed you keep referring to his son as God, hmmm? What about women?
honey, he didn’t actually write the book. He inspired men to write the book, but he didn’t actually write the book.
I like your faith, I like your devotion, but Jesus didn’t actually sit down and write out the manuscript. The authors are various men.
“Please be gracious enough to remove it.”
Please be gracious enough to not promote censorship.
Freedom of speech, baby.
So true!
So you’ve been told…
Get this out of here, thanks.
No censorship here, thanks.
The Bible isn’t solely about Jesus. It’s accounts of the lives of the Israelites and prophets, too. I don’t think the maker of this graph quite gets it. Ever read the Bible?
I’m a card carrying Pagan and even I knew that
So say we all!
they make cards?
epic win
Clearly, he did not. Why bother when there are so many people who *say* they read it and can give you the “Cliff’s notes”?
This is just sad. I came to graphjam to see funny things, not to have my beliefs ridiculed.
Even taking the touchy subject matter out, its just not a funny graph. Big Fail, Graphjam.
Perhaps you should invest in beliefs that are less ridiculous.
Perhaps this graph should suck less.
Perhaps you shouldn’t rant on the internet at people you know literally nothing about. Because total lolzercoasters if that was directed at me. I’m an atheist. “These” graph sucks seriously. Seriously, did anyone find this funny?
I found this funny.
Perhaps I found this funny.
I was vaguely amused.
I’m Catholic, and I was vaguely amused.
But it’s not your choice whether or not this is on here.
And all of this stuff is user-made so… yeah. Quit blaming the website.
Who blamed the website? i just said that this graph wasn’t funny. There have been other funny ones though. But making a religious graph just to be “witty” isn’t funny. And can you even be vaguely amused? Is that a thing?
“Perhaps you should invest in beliefs that are less ridiculous.”
HAHAHA.
*Points a Laurie’s Beliefs*
{Nelson Muntz}
aaaah-HA!
{/Nelson Muntz}
And wait, what is with the video below it? Mormonism? Someone is very confused.
Great, now every time I think of dropping by Graphjam, this is all I’m going to think of. Way to ruin one of my favorite daily sites.
Actually, Jesus did not write ANY of the bible. His story was told by his apostles who were with him about every waking moment.
Apart from when he was alone in the Garden… they were with him all the time apart from then…
TBH, there is no definite apostolic link, and even a desultory research on the narratives as they stand shows numerous changes, interpolations and edits on key events…
I don’t know why people are up in arms about this. The Bible was written 40 some years AFTER Jesus died. Also, the only people who knew how to read and write were royalty and clergyman. One more thing to think about.. opium was a popular, legal drug back in that time. Who’s to say the Bible wasn’t written by monks on a bad opium trip? So since none of us were around 1900 years ago, we don’t really know the truth.
40 years is not a long time. It was still written by eye-witnesses. It took a couple thousand years to write down stories like Beowulf or things about the Trojan Wars and people aren’t up in arms about that sort of history.
We can look at several accounts written by several different people and notice the consistency. And things that are written in the Gospels and in whole Bible, honestly, do not match up with what someone would use to make-up a religion. At least, if I were to make-up a religion I don’t think I would use half the principles that Jesus demands. They are kind of hardcore and easily offend people who don’t understand.
Well you also have to remember that the life expectancy was far shorter 2000 years ago in the age of Jesus. So there would have been very few living eye witnesses left when the book was put together. It’s a strong possibility that portions of the different stories are true. But along with many events in history, I believe the stories may have become skewed or exaggerated at least slightly. Again I bring up the point that none of us were around back then, so no one really knows for sure. This post was not meant to offend anyone. Just to add another point of view to the situation. And this goes for all religions and major events in history, not just Jesus and Christianity. The sad truth is, we just don’t know.
Missed that… sorry… some valid points there too…
In what world is Beowulf history? And the Trojan War? Historians aren’t even sure whether it even happened.
when an average man had a life expectancy of 45 years, 40 years is a BLOODY long time… God’s stripes and wounds, but if that’s the best apologists can muster, then the Church is undone…
“40 years is not a long time. It was still written by eye-witnesses. ”
How long do you think people lived 2000 ago, considering that there are still developing countries today where life expectancy is around 40?
You think Beowulf is history??
You honestly think that, saying God was real, that He’d let some opium induced monks screw up His one written word on earth? I think that a God who invented and created the entire universe could have a liiiittle more pull when it comes to guiding those who are writing about Him.
You assume that any gods exist.
Facts not in evidence.
I’ve seen too many miraculous things not to believe in some form of supreme being(s) but I don’t believe in the fairy tales contained within the Christian Bible
Actually, Jesus didn’t say very much at all until Matthew which is about 75% of the way through. The rest consists of historical records (which are known to be very accurate), genealogies, collections of songs (Psalms), letters and other texts.
The world is full of SPAM now because writing is now cheap and easy. People didn’t make up “crazy” things in those days and write them down to fool other people. It wouldn’t even have worked because most people couldn’t read. Writing was very resource intensive in those days and only a few people could do it. Many of those people were professionals; scribes and adjuncts to the royal authorities of the day. Some parts of the Bible were actually written by kings. The Bible was the “New York Times” of it’s day.
You have to ask yourself why so very many other people have continued to copy and translate all these “made up” stories for thousands of years…even until this day. You are all repeating hearsay and whatever of that is not totally wrong is either inaccurate or taken out of context. Not a wise course.
“You have to ask yourself why so very many other people have continued to copy and translate all these “made up” stories for thousands of years…even until this day.”
I forget who said
“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.”
but it seems to fit.
It sounds like Goebels…
Yes, people are saying that the Bible is lies and that people who believe it are “crazy”. What was your point?
“You have to ask yourself why so very many other people have continued to copy and translate all these “made up” stories for thousands of years…even until this day.”
Uh… because it was the religion pushed by the government of the Roman Empire, ie the largest and most influential government of its time and the foundation, however dubious, of western society as we know it?
Maybe?
I have no doubt that a man named Jesus lived at that time because of the four main stories written about him and the few other references to him in other texts(biblical or not included biblical writings). Just as easily I believe a man named Hector was killed at Troy by Achilles even though there is just one writing about it. The idea that he was son of god is under contention and, as the great Gandhi said, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
The guy had some good ideas but it seems like he is the reason A LOT of people in history have killed/maimed/suppressed. Not so Christ like.
Humanist.
You’ve found extra-biblical historical references to Jesus? Do share these with the scientific community. They’ve yet to find any that weren’t either so vague as to refer to a great number of people (i.e. only referring to “Christ”) or outright forgeries.
no no. You obviously haven’t studied much. There are tons of writings outside of the Bible about Christ and the Christian movement. Lots of Roman leaders talked about them.
Really? “Tons” you say? Perhaps you could produce some of this evidence?
Please. Something credible. (And by credible I mean something that would take more than 30 seconds to disprove.)
Kind of silly for 11 of the 13 apostles to become martyrs for someone who didn’t exist. Unless you don’t think they were real either.
Your comment is awful. If Jesus didn’t exist, and the Bible is a bunch of bull, then these 13 apostles probably never existed either. And thus, were not martyrs.
The fact that many of these apostles’ writings survive to this day through a remarkably consistent transmission and that several of these writings can be dated back to very soon after the supposed Jesus’s death proves absolutely nothing about their existence.
Lot of people died for Jim Jones too… don’t make him less of a nut bucket…
Win.
But … people aren’t /still/ dying for Jim Jones, are they?
Why did the cult of Jesus, alone, of hundreds of mystery religions and possible messiah candidates, survive several years of violent persecution (I don’t particularly fancy being used as a torch in Nero’s Rome) to become one of the world’s major religions? I’m not sure if it says anything worth wondering about… but I feel like the chances against Christianity were a good million to one. What does one make of its success?
The same as someone winning the lottery. It doesn’t prove that they’re special or touched by god, it just means they’re lucky.
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Verac/C-0401.htm
This link to a website is the best I can come up with off the top of my head. It lists a few of the archeological discoveries that coincide with the Bible as well as other manuscripts that discuss persons in the Bible.
I have sincere doubts about a site called Prove the Bible being unbiased.
Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus around 115 CE, as he was writing details of the great Roman fire that destroyed the Temple in 70 CE. Scholars believe that he may have gotten his details about Jesus’ life from official public records, perhaps even the report written by Pilate.
Two references have been made to a report written by Pontius Pilate. The references are from Justin Martyr (150 CE.) and Tetullian (200 CE). Both references correspond with the fact that there was an official document in Rome from Pilate that detailed the crucifixion but also reported acts of miracles.
Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian, wrote, “Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the City.” Chrestus is a variant spelling of Christ.
Many many scrolls found in the caves of Qumran discuss Jesus.
And as I said earlier, Jewish historian Flavius Josephus also mentions Jesus in his Antiquities of the Jews.
He may or may not have been the divine son of God and the savior of all humanity, but it more than likely IS at least true that he was born, he lived, he carried out a public ministry that attracted enough followers to concern both Roman and Jewish officials, and as the result of a criminal act he was executed by the Roman official Pontius Pilate.
See what happens when you are a progressive hippy liberal trying to promote peace and non-violent protest? You get brutally murdered by the conservatives in power and then they hijack and pervert your teachings.
Thanks for that! Now I can totally see long-haired Jesus, with all his long-haired and long-bearded disciples, running around playing Ultimate Frisbee or Hacky-Sack in his Birkenstocks in between delivering his messages of peace and inclusion. Awesome.
Smoking opium and drinking wine, asking Peter “dude, how do I know that blue is the same color to me as it is to you?” “Whoa, lookit my hand huhuhuh”
He was also a jobless socialist what with the free meical care he doled out, and feeding crowds of people at no charge.
Tacitus was writing in 116 and was writing on the Great Fire
of Rome, not a ‘temple’. By 116 the Chrisitan mythos was
pretty much set, and there is little or no unbiased evidence that Pilate ever reported a damned thing. That Tacitus, while slandering Nero, did a little research into the Christian religion is of small surprise. If you get the small details right in a slander, the big details, even if later disproved (which is often hard), retains a level of gravitas…
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I’ve addressed Flavius Josephus above.
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The idea of Justin Martyr being an ‘extra biblical’ source is like saying Billy Graham is, although it gives us an earlier date of Pilate appearing in the Christ myth. I’d make the same criticism of citing Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, since he ALSO is a Christian auther and is thus expected to adhere to the myth…
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So, there are no extant contemporaneous records of the man that can wholly be relied upon. This in comparison to a man who ‘died’ in Acts, and was a thorn in Rome’s side to such a degree he became venerated by some a demi-god… The Romans had no qualm about recording the people who beat them.
Not extra-biblical per se but there were quite a few books left out of the bible when them dudes put it together. I think the way I stated it was ambiguous. I apologize.
Of course, one might argue that the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible is also about Jesus (prophecies and whatnot), and that if He’s divine like Christians say He is, then everything God says are His words, too.
Either way, though, check your scholarship, not just what some dude on TV or in a book (or, heaven forbid, the Internet) says.
haha the ignorance here made me chuckle
This graph doesn’t even approach being humorous and rather brings out the hatin’ in several of the posters here.
I like checking out Graphjam to view the attempts to make humorous graphs but not to come here and feel like I am being hated for believing in Christ and the Bible. Many comments here clearly reflect an anti-Chrisitan or anti-Bible sentiment.
Since this graph does not represent an attempt to be serious about factual information I can only assume is was meant to be funny. Graphjam editors, I asure you I found this not only incredibly not funny but quite the assault on my faith. I felt is was meant to mock and hurt.
So, before I get flamed endlessly, yes, I can excerise my right to not visit GraphJam. That’s all fine and good. I’d rather people understand that their actions have consequences; that maybe in the future you might consider another’s feelings over your own selfishness before you post something like this simply because you can. I’d rather people at least hear once that their gross generalizations of people who follow the Bible are ignorant and hurtful.
I do hope the editor’s use better judgment in the future.
Well said, and thank you.
It may not be as funny as it could be, but you have to admit, religion carries with it a degree of absurdity. If you can’t deal with your religion’s own absurdity, maybe you shouldn’t spend so much time on the interwebs where such ideas are challenged?
I agree.
So, just to confirm, it’s ok to subject others to your religion every time they, say, pledge allegiance or look at currency, but it’s totally unacceptable and/or offensive for anyone to express a differing view? That’s so…Islamic. I can certainly see things about torture and abuse being offensive, and there are certainly topics which should be reserved for more mature forums, but poking fun at your beliefs (or, more accurately, someone expressing their own) hurts your feelings?
.
What is with the refusal to understand this? Atheists are not “non-believers” – they BELIEVE there is no God. They can’t prove it (proving a negative is really very difficult in any case). If (and I’m repeating myself here) they wanted to push their religion (and it is one, and admittedly some do want to push it) on everyone else they’d insist that the phrase “under NO God” be used, rather than simply removing the “under God” part. What’s that? Oh, please excuse me, there’s one of those atheists at the door distributing pamphlets and preaching their religion (they must be on an Atheist Mission from Russia or something). I should go listen – wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings.
.
This is somewhat US-centric, apologies for that.
Don’t forget about keeping silent when Scientology is bashed, let alone when people are declared a “fail” when they are mentally/physically handicapped. At least people CHOOSE religion.
Oh, cut the victim complex. Sorry if the graph isn’t politically correct enough for you, but the way you go on makes it sound like you’re being fed to the lions
Finally. Thank you.
I consider your faith to be an assault on my humanity, and yet, I don’t go around whining for people to take it off the internet.
If you come to Graphjam for seriouosness and factual information, you are looking in the wrong spot. If you are looking for humor and sarcasm, then WELCOME!
The creator could have been referring to the fact that most of the time people talk about the bible, they misrepresent Jesus’ ideas and things. For example, don’t sleep when you’re angry. That is from some verse (I forget) that says not to let the sun go down while angry. What if you sleep in the daytime?
With papjon’s comment
Oh joy, another religiously polarizing graph… now ensues yet another internet message board argument where the Atheists tell the Christians to lighten up and the Christians defend themselves, until (hopefully) the moderators remove this whole post for being: 1, a lame joke (even if you agree with it) and 2, the sort of religious prejudice I hope never to see from Graphjam again (also whether you agree with it or not). Epic moderator fail. Let’s put an end to this quickly.
Get a life.
Are there any Christians out there who will join me in praying for these people? It seems more effective than arguing with them. God bless.
I’ll pray to Joe Pesci with you…
No, I think praying has about the same success rate; 0%.
For those of you asking about specific extra-biblical citations of Jesus’ existence, death, and the early church following, please refer to the writings of Josephus, and ancient Jewish scholar who kept records of Roman wars. He wrote of the execution of “James, the brother of Jesus, who is called the Christ.” He also wrote the Testimonium Flavianum, in which he described Jesus and his “Christian” tribe. You could also look up the works of Tacitus, who mentions Christ’s death during the reign of Tiberius, his execution by the Roman Governer of Judea (Pontius Pilate), and how this suppressed his religious movement briefly, but then it began to spread rapidly. By the way, Tacitus said this in very anti-Christian tones. Next we have Suetonius, who wrote of “Chrestus,”, Pliny the Younger who mentioned “Christians” singing to “Christ as a god,” and Lucian the playwrite creating characters who “worshiped a crucified sophist.”
Are these enough extra-biblical references for you?
The bottom line is: Jesus existed, he was a teacher, he was crucified by the Romans, and those who followed him/were inspired by him grew into what we now have as the Christian Church. And those of you trying to claim he was a myth are just going to have to deal with that.
This is the best, most logically presented, concise post here. Good job!
Quite using logic. There is no room for logic when dealing with nuts on either side.
Agreed…
discussed above… it’s not exactly without doubt that the texts cited are as the author intended…only thing that CAN be said was there was a Christ cult sometime after AD70
It took a while for the first rant to post, so I thought it was not going to. Sorry for the redundant post.
Do you expect us to read all that?
Well, not you.
Jerk! Go preach your empty words then.
You know that George Carlin is a now deceased comedian right? He came up with the concept of the “seven dirty words” you can never say on TV. And seriously, would anybody ever “preach” that everyone should pray to Joe Pechi? Everything posted above is just a rather well known comedy routine from a man who spent 50 years pissing off the system.
I feel sad that you didn’t get the joke. Although, it somehow still amuses me.
I wonder how many of the “Christians” here would be complaining if the graph had made fun of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism, etc…?
My guess would be very few. It’s okay to laugh at religions, groups, individuals until it’s YOU in the firing line.
If you can’t take a joke, your faith seems very thin.
As usual with Christianity, hypocrisy seems to rule above all.
Try making fun of Islam, or questioning it, in an Islamic country, and see what happens.
I think the point made above was that HERE Christians are up in arms, but i a graph posted HERE making fun of Islam etc there would be little dissent
Making fun of Islam results in death threats (sometimes by the Moslem country’s government itself), fatwas, rioting in the streets, burning of embassies (remember the cartoon thing a while back?). Remember the schoolteacher who named the class teddy bear Mohammed? The Dutch film director whose throat was cut over the film he made about Islam?
Making fun of Christianity – or anything else – in the western world is an exercise in the freedom of speech. But let’s be fair. While there has been some heinous acts done in the distant past in the name of Christianity, these days, Christian fanatics usually just hand out leaflets about salvation (even as a Christian, I duck when I see them coming). Jewish fanatics??? Wow, I don’t know – force gefelter fish onto their unwitting neighbors? But Moslem fanatics……even in most Moslem countries, “Defamation of Islam” is a criminal offense. We’re fortunate to live in a society that has freedom of religion, and freedom of speech.
Yes, we are free to criticise religion, and that is a very good thing. Christians should stop whining about religious criticism. They would if they visited a country without that freedom.
Graph Jam is a Christian country? Sh!t…
Ah, but Cassandra, “Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism” are just filthy apostate heathens to be Mocked… when you’re not trying to convert of kill them, of course…
unfortunately, I have to agree with you.
Watch the episode of south park about the economy, best Jesus story ever
This has been a thoroughly interesting discussion on religion and Christianity. Both sides presented well reasoned, researched, and cited arguments. I feel spiritually and intellectually exhausted, but in a good way, like after a good workout or a hard days work. Thanks one and all for such amazing and intelligent comments.
Could(n’t) agree *cough* more.
Bah, who bothers to research in a religion/atheist debate? That’s SOOOOOO old fashioned.
I like the Flying Spaghetti Monster…
RAmen
I have been touched but His great noodly appendage! RAmen!!!
And for the love of Mike, wear a condom! If I didn’t want it to feel good, I would’ve added spikes, or something.
RAmen.
Thank you, George, thank you. *applause*
I only read your last paragraph, and I’m amused that you think you have the power to command God.
Try reading three or paragraphs up, then google the name “George Carlin”. I also feel sad that you missed out.
I’ve said this over on PK, but in MY vision of a halfway decently designed universe, George is on tour with Bill Hicks…
Blah Blah…yet again people prove they have no sense of humor.
Personally, I’m a follower of Russell Bertrand’s Teapot. Let the Almight Spout cleanse humanity with the Tea Leaves Of Justice.
Oh please – that’s just piffle. The only true religion (listen up you heretics!) is Jupiterianism. The basic tenets are that life in this solar system was originally created on Jupiter by beings from another solar system while working on graduate degree (they had a theory about how life would develop on a gas giant with x number of moons which was y distance from it’s primary etc.). That’s an ongoing thing, BTW – they haven’t finished their research. Anyhow, once the inhabitants of Jupiter had progressed to a particular point they started working on their own theories and were fascinated by the idea of life on a small planet with a thin atmosphere that was much closer to the primary, so they started with Earth (the Venus faction were all quite put out, as you can well imagine). They started small, with simple one-celled critters and various oozy things, slowly building up to more complex organisms culminating in the dinosaurs (the reptile folks were in control at the time, you see). The dinosaurs were pretty impressive, and all, but the whole teeny-tiny-brain thing turned out to be a huge mistake, so about that time the mammal group (specifically the primate sub-group) rose to ascendancy and the dinos were wiped out and replaced with humans (well, not-too-hairy primates, anyhow). This is an ongoing thing, and given the state of the planet and society at this time it’s hard to say when they’ll scrub us in favor of some other dominant species (the bird and fish groups are campaigning hard, but I think the insect group might prevail – they’re more subtle and patient).
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Please note that this explains many things which are otherwise unknown – what happened to the dinosaurs? Why are we here? Where are UFOs coming from (it’s them checking on their project)? Honestly, when they explained it to me (that time I was abducted) it really made a lot of sense.
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Of course, I am a little worried that they’ll decide to wipe us out before we can do irreparable harm to the planet…
Well, crap, it seems (as I’ve just been informed) that I’ve “tainted” the experiment. Please disregard my note above – there is no intelligent life in this solar system besides us. And cats (but they deny that we’re intelligent – good thing we’re the ones with thumbs). There is nothing on Jupiter and we should just go about our business.
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And here I had the pamphlets all printed and everything…
I like how you keep using the word “piffle”
I never see that… and it amuses me to see someone using it^-^
(I’m honestly not making fun of you… I just like that word ^-^)
And don’t even get me started on the Lucifer and Satan myth…
Okay well here it is anyway.
Satan was inspired by the real Morning Star which was the planet Venus as seen in the morning by the ancient Greeks.
Satan was said to be the wanderer, and also, the brightest star of all the angels in heaven..
Phosphoros ie; Lucifer was the name for planet Venus as seen in the morning ie; the Morning Star – which just happens to be the name of the babylonian King mistook to be Satan. Also it was eventually called the wandering star and was always known to be the brightest star in the sky, when it was seen.
Lucifer was really a quite real tyrannical babylonian King who was written about and once read by the founders of Christianity – mistook to be the devil.
Over time, Lucifer and Satan became one, and turned from a star to an angel, to a fallen angel and then to a horned Devil.
Christians being the murderous wretches they were, used to mistake witches – Pagans (normal everyday folk who worshipped their own gods and practiced non-evil magic) – to be evil and used to burn them at the stake for their apparent evil ways. These witches worshipped a Horned God named Pan – which had a mans body, and deers head, and cloven feet and had horns of course.
They took this to be Satan (mongs) and thus the shape of Lucifer/Satan as a horned devil was born.
To reflect, this religion is the cause of many of lifes problems, and a big cause of Human history’s bloodshed and is the world’s biggest fraud.
Read this whole thing while hearing George’s wonderful inflection in my head – can’t say I agree with everything he said, but the man could tell a story and deliver a joke like none other! This is one of his most famous routines for a reason.
five *’d
Get lives everyone. It’s a joke.
Did your pray today? Well, how did it go? Did you hear that little small voice in your heart giving you an answer? Did you sense a clear direction in your life as to what you should do after you prayed? Did you know in your heart that your prayer made it to the throne of God?
I am afraid that many Christians don’t pray everyday. In fact, the Barna Group in 2001 did a survey to see how many Christians in the past 7 days had a private time with God and the result was that only 49% had at least one private time with God in the last seven days. That means in any given week more Christians don’t spend time alone with God than do. How sad!
In 2005, Lifeway Christian Resources surveyed more than 1300 evangelical leaders from around the world to determine what they perceived to be the “Top 10 Issues Facing Today’s Church.” And the number 1 issue is the need for more ongoing, passionate prayers in both the Christian’s personal life and in their church life.
Those reports tell me that Christians don’t pray like they ought and I can only think of one reason why that is the case. We see no heavenly benefit coming from our prayers. You can’t tell me if I am seeing heavenly results from my prayers that I wouldn’t keep praying.
In the Sermon on the Mount, God warns us about this. He tells us that will be times when we receive no heavenly benefits from our prayers. There will be times that heaven will not answer your prayers and it is going to be those times when we choose to pray like the hypocrites pray. He tells us when we pray like the hypocrites our prayer is its own reward. When we pray like the hypocrites there will be no action taken by heaven on our request.
I don’t want to pray like the hypocrites pray; I want heaven to answer my prayer. So I had better find out how the hypocrites pray so that I don’t pray like them. And you better find our how the hypocrites pray so you don’t pray like them either. So today, let’s discover what it is about the hypocrite’s prayer that heaven says this prayer doesn’t deserve an answer from God.
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Matthew 6:5-8 (NIV)
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Body:
1. God will not answer a prayer that starts off talking to Him but ends up talking to those around us.
Matthew 6:5 (NIV)
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
A. Prayer is our connection God. Prayer allows me the opportunity to talk one on one with God. But sometimes in our prayers we begin talking with God but somewhere in the prayer it shifts to talking to the people around us.
B. I guest the best example I can think of to explain this is suppose you and someone else when to a restaurant to eat. You normally engage in conversation with the person you came with while you are waiting for your food to be served to you. However, during your conversation, you over hear the conversation at the table next to you and it sounds more interesting than the one at your table. And so what you end up doing is paying more attention to the people at the other table and actually neglecting the person you came with.
C. Sometimes we start our prayers talking with God but we end our prayer actually talking to the people around us. We are ignoring the person we came to prayer with.
D. There is no reason for God to answer that type of prayer because really in the end you are not talking to Him; you are talking to the people around you. If your prayer is not exclusive with God, heaven will not answer.
E. Preachers are great at these types of prayers. We start off talking with God but we end up our prayer talking to the congregation. A parent praying with a child might start their prayer talking to God but end their prayer talking with their children. A husband and wife praying together about a decision in their life may start their prayer talking to God but may end up their prayer trying to convince the other one that their way is the right way. The hypocrite in our passage starts off talking to God but ends up talking to those around him that see him praying. In every case, the prayer shifts from taking to God to talking to somebody else.
F. If you want your prayers answered then you better exclusively talk to God from start to finish in your prayer.
2. God will not answer a prayer that as a result of that pray I have just committed a sin.
I’m sure you just changed a life.
He changed mine… I’m older than I was when I started reading it…
I just spit all over my keyboard. Thanks.
Yes, more time devoted to prayer with Joe Pesci is exactly what this world needs.
George Carlin ftw
Sounds stupid in that it requires swallowing a whole lotta BS in order to address one’s inner psyche. Try meditation or something less mythological and people just may take you seriously.
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“the land-line to the flying spaghetti monster is in your heart!”
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Rubbish. But hey, if it makes you feel better pretending that you get a second opinion from a ghost instead of yourself, go for it, but don’t try to tell people that your delusion is real. It tends to make you look crazy.
1.) God will not anwser your prayer because he/she/it does not exist
2.) Have some fun in life stop, worrying if you’re going to heaven or not
3.) stop forcing people into your religion, people don’t like it when your force them to do stuff.
whatever you believe to be true, if you don’t want people forcing their idea of the truth on you, then you shouldn’t be forcing your idea of the truth on them.
I’m happy being Catholic, just as (I am assuming) you are happy being Atheist.
That is a fair enough statement. Indoctrination is never a good thing, either from religion or lack thereof.
How would you know?
TL;DR
Too short, poster very, very stupid…
at first, i was going to be offended by this, but then i realized that if youre reading anything other than a KJV then this graph becomes pretty accurate.
although im sure that wasnt the intention of whoever created this graph, someone just threw this together in an attempt to troll. successful troll is successful.
KJV only? Just when you think the level of burning stupid can’t get more intense, it does…
I don’t agree angrycat
I respect you stating your opinion and I’m glad you stood up for the Word
BUT:declaring the KJV to be the only true interpretation of the original Ancient Hebrew and Ancient Greek text is similar to fundamentalist who say
“if the KJV was good enough for Jesus than its good enough for me.”
Now if they don’t use sarcasm on your home planet you must pay close attention or you will miss the meaning of this statement*which was made in good fun and not meant to offend a fellow brother in Christ
* Douglas Adams: “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”
Yeah, those Greek and Hebrew bibles were notoriously inaccurate. Thank God for the KJV for correcting all those errors present in the original versions.
Sarcasm win
Hey, the King James Version is missing SEVERAL books. If you wanna argue that crap, go ahead, but guess where you got your Bible?
From the Catholics.
Guess what’s in the Catholic Bible?
All those books that you claim aren’t supposed to be there.
And btw, the original King James Version INCLUDED those books, thank you.
Sounds like Pratītyasamutpāda. I guess Carlin was a Buddhist.
Hmm…I’m guessing the graphmaker is one of those who goes through the first four books of the new testament and randomly says “Yeah, Jesus said that. No, I don’t think he said that, though. He definitely meant this.”
Keep in mind that the bible spans several thousand years. 66 books in all, and Jesus was around (at least physically) for only four. The Old Testament was pretty much reliable history for the then-Israelites, so there wasn’t any dispute. In there were a large number of prophecies, and not just vague ones, either. I’m talking about very specific details and events. And Jesus matched each and every single one exactly! Statistically, the odds of that happening by chance are 1 in an inconceivably large number.
But what you don’t realize is that I’ve spent my life building up an immunity to iocaine powder.
And Austrialia is entirely populated by criminals.
PB reference win.
Ignorace is not bliss….. but it’s funny to laugh at ignorant people……………
THIS IS A LIE!!! JESUS IS REAL GOD IS REAL THE BIBLE IS TRUE CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A LIE AND YOU WILL ALL SEE THIS ONE DAY WHEN YOU DIE AND COME FACE TO FACE WITH GOD!! EVERYONE INCLUDING CHRISTIANS WILL HAVE TO FACE GOD FOR THE TINGS THAT THEY HAVE DONE IN THIER LIVES…WETHER BAD OR GOOD. YOU WILL SEE ONE DAY AND WISH THAT YOU WOULD’VE LISTENED!!!
WHAT A HORRIBLE PIC! CHRISTIANS HAVE FEELINGS TOO YOU KNOW!
In 274 CE the Roamn Emperor Aurelien officially set the date of December 25th natalis Solis Invicti (the birthday of the inconquerable Sun) in honour of the Sun God. The festival took place just after Winter Solstice, when the days became longer.
The Roman Emperor Constantine (fourth Century CE) was converted to Christianity. Alliances were formed between Constantine and the early Christian Church, and in 324 he made Christianity the official religion of Rome. In 349 CE Pope Julius formally selected December 25th as the birth date of Christ, and so began the celebration of Christmas and the arrogation of seasonal Pagan symbolism and religious theme.
The Christmas traditions ‘borrowed’ from Pagans were the yule log, bringing an evergreen tree into the house and decorating it, celebrations, games, food and drink, frankincense and mirth are also Pagan things, representing life and death..
Germanic Pagans used to celebrate Yule (winter solstice) for 12 days, hence the 12 days of Christmas.
The fatman climbing down your chimney originated from Germanic Pagans also, but it was a troll who would crawl down your chimney and eat you if you were bad…
This information is readily available on the net if any Christians wish to challenge it…
it seems the bible being so strong is really quite fragile these days…
If they were created by God..wouldn’t they have been in fact Gods’ before they were the pagans?
Hundreds, if not thousands of sun gods before Jesus (who is a sun god) shared numerous traits with Jesus: Born on Dec 25th to a virgin, only begotten son of God, birth heralded by a star announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds. Herut tried to have Horus offed, Herod tried to have Jesus offed. Story is empty between the ages of 12 and 30. Sermon on the mount, crucifixion, resurrection after 3 days…it’s all there. Why are these two stories, as well as the other stories of gods before, all the same? Because it’s all astrological. The stories are about the SUN, not the “son”.
The sun dips to it’s lowest point in the sky around Dec 22nd after it passes through the constellation Crux (“Cross”). It “rests” there for 3 DAYS before it RISES AGAIN on Dec 25th. 30 days later the sun enters Aquarius (Jesus was baptized at 30).
It’s all so plain and simple. The story of Jesus was never meant to be taken literally. He was only meant to be a personification of the sun. In Buddhism, the story of Buddha says when he reached enlightenment that the Earth shook. The Earth didn’t shake. Nothing shook. Saying the Earth shook was only meant to show the significance of the event. It was never meant to be taken literally.
The Christian god will die just like the gods of ancient Greece and ancient Egypt died. It’s just taking longer because the people of the world are closer now than ever before so the story was able to travel faster, be put in print and the followers are able to support each other in remaining steadfast.
Um Adhe,
Jesus ‘died and rose again in three days’ on Easter, but was supposedly BORN on December 25th. Nice story though.
The “All Caps” let me know that you’re serious.
ahahaha… i thought this graph was a “WIN”
So does everyone else. We’re all human. We all have the right to believe as we choose. Extremists that shove their religion down other people’s throats make me laugh. It just shows how close minded you are. I don’t care what or who anyone else believes it, just as it’s none of anyone’s business what I believe in. Why is it so hard to just let go of your hatred and just let others do as they please with their own lives?
Moa-Tayloy is totally wrong. It’s not a pic; it’s a graph.
prove its all a lie. prove that jesus and god are real. if you find these jokes offending then dont look at them.
Prove that it’s not real. I find this horribly offending, but how can I avoid it when I just innocently come to this page and see it sitting there? You expect me to sit like a bump on a log while you offend my religion? I THINK NOT!
theres no actual evidence that anything written in your fairy story is real or happened. incase you didnt notice, these pictures are jokes.you know what a joke is?
Then what is the evidence for everything else that happened WAYYY back when before written history?
you should actually read where exactly your faith was stolen from and what its all about.
Yes and the need for screaming via all-caps is quite overwhelming.
Hmm. There is a God. Or, there isn’t. I rather suspect that this one is going to run and run.
For what it’s worth, I’m an atheist but I reckon there probably was a guy called Jesus around that time (hell, with all those movies about him there’s got to have been someone, right?). What’s funny is that the graph that has sparked this rather pointless debate (I’m pretty sure no-one’s going to provide conclusive proof one way or the other) suggests that quoting the Bible verbatim is pointless, whichever point you’re trying to prove, as it’s not the actual word of the Messiah the whole time. So quoting the Gospels to prove Jesus was peace-loving is pointless (you can’t use an article of your faith as proof of your faith) and going the other way to use biblical text to prove God is evil and violent is silly as it rather pre-supposes that there is a God.
Religion doesn’t lend itself to rational debate as that’s not what it’s based on.
I suggest we all have some cookies and milk and forget about this
I agree.. except for the milk, as I am lactose intolerant. I shall have pie instead. ^_^
But, it’s a bar graph, not a…oh, sorry. Never mind.
tis be seely. akshully, u guys knoes sumfink?
it dusnt matter wut oter peeps sez or fink, a purrson wil onli chews tew **belif wut tey wun tew belif** liek iz caer!
Ceiling cat FTW!!!!111!!1!
I just gotta say after reading through about 1/4 of the above comments. It’s amazing how LITTLE some of the people here know about the Word. Maybe, just MAYBE if you read the Bible, as in the WHOLE Bible, you’d learn something.
That is all.
Learn WHAT?
That the God of Abraham was a nasty, capricious piece of work?
A lot of bad science?
God’s teeth, but they breed them stupid in the Bible belt…
Gotta love how Religion made this graph have 3-10 times more comments the usual quantity.
Always a risky thing to talk about.
…and women.
As a Christian, this graph offends me. Everyone knows that pie charts are better for percentages than bar graphs.
Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!
Well, it’s true. “For verily Jesus did say ‘A bar graph with percentages is an abomination unto the Lord” –Gerald 15:23
See? I can do it, too.
Loool epic
It’s one of those 3-D abominations as well. Verily I say unto you, he who clicks the “3-D” button on his graphing software shall suffer for having concealed the truth. It is an abomination unto proper visual representations of data.
Precisely! If only more people listened to what the Lord has to tell them, then they would know how to make graphs that accurately represented their data.
*deep sigh*
I don’t understand all of this Christian based bashing. It hurts…
Better wording. XD
**I don’t understand all of this Christian bashing. It hurts…
Try being a white male non-Christian in the US some time…you get used to it.
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Excuse me please, I’m off to do evil now…
I don’t understand Christians, they are always angry.
While we’re on the subject, Jesus was probably schizophrenic (people hear ‘God’ in their heads now, they get locked up. People heard ‘God’ in their heads 2000-ish years ago, they get worshipped. FAIL), and born in April. The nice Priests wanted all these ‘Pagans’ to join them (and give them money, as stated earlier), so they moved Jesus’ birthday to the Saturnalia.
P.S. When I say ‘God’ feel free to replace it with any other deity. I don’t discriminate, I’m equally nasty to everyone.
That’s the way I like my nasties. Fair and Balanced.
Some of those who, as you said “heard God in their heads” were not necessarily worshipped, but were respected as prophets. You can’t call them crazy if they predicted events that really happened.
*chuckles at the seemingly forever-stretching dialog of bickering and face slapping*
What bible is the chart referring to? It could mean the Catholic Text, considering they like to change things/rewrite it here and there…
…but otherwise, I’m not sure I get it.
Well said. Everyone should read your comment
Hey, where do you think you got the Bible from?
The Catholics.
The Catholics were the original Christians, remember that.
The Protestants are the ones who changed things.
Read your history books.
Ummm…sarcasm win or history fail?
I say believe in whatever you want to believe, but don’t go around postulating that religion is fact. Faith does not rely on proof; that is why it is faith. To bicker over something that does not rely on proof or facts is ludicrous.
Interesting. You’re about level 2. About the same as the mockers at the crucifixion. Still begging for some sort of hard evidence. Demanding proof.
Dude, if you can’t go look up at the sky and stars and take that as proof enough, you’ll never accept anything.
Yep, when I look up at the stars and the sky, I know it’s a confirmation of the existence of Allah.
“if you can’t go look up at the sky and stars and take that as proof enough, you’ll never accept anything.”
When I look up at the stars, it’s confirmation that stars existed. That’s all. Maybe if you see other things when you look at the stars, you should get your eyes checked.
This has become fairly complicated. Tradition is one thing, most people I know tend to believe what has been taught in their family for many generations. What I see are misinformed “Christians”, that unfortunately tend to be the most .. outgoing. I see atheists who prize knowledge and facts and for their own reasons and experiences they have come to their conclusion. The problem lies in our imperfection, right? If we were all perfect there would be no debate. One important conflict of Christian/Atheist seems to be just that. Christians would argue since the fall of man we have been plagued with a sinful nature that separates us from God, and we need to be reconciled to our creator through a sacrifice of sorts. Atheists would argue that we’re “only human” to explain our imperfection, with no one to answer to. If being a Christian means all the things I’ve done wrong I will be held accountable for and if the Judge says I didn’t make the cut I get fire and brimstone? Well that sucks. If being an Atheist means I’m not accountable for my actions aside from personal moral decisions and basic human rights and regulations of the government that I am under, well that’s not so terrible, because then those sources would be my “Judges”. And none of those people, myself included, could condemn me to an eternity of any sorts. That is more comfortable, because I can see it, I can manage it, I can give the knowledge that I acquire the place that used to be filled by this “God” problem.
I’m just trying to define the great line here. Would anyone agree I’m pretty close to a simplified outline?
Personally, I commend the faith of Atheists. It is a big thing to believe that God is an invention of myth, history, imagination, chance, mistake, or man. I wonder if we say God is an invention of man, what then is man, or, to imagine that any one of us could be all seeing- all life? An invention of myth, history, imagination, chance, mistake? Regardless of whatever may or may not have taken 100 billion years for us to get to the point of self taught theists debating matters of eternity (or lack thereof) on the platform of what was intended for.. jokes..
I think most of us are good people. We should listen more. We should be progressive, unlike most of those who have gone before us. We should not worry about conviction on any platform that starts with http://www. We should, but the pessimist in me says we won’t.
hi 5
Relax, Boss. You just have to look at their argument from the right perspective and it all looks quite silly too. They are essentially looking for the “Jesus Christ Particle” that fits neatly into some scientific equation that someone else told them about. God doesn’t function that way and to presume that he/she/it does is asinine. This line of thinking is just as silly as trying to explain religion to someone who has drank the science kool-aid; both appear absurd from the other perspective while all the while the truth lies somewhere between.
Probably one of the best graphs I’ve seen so far
Except “Things Jesus Said” should be zero percent
…since Jesus doesn’t exist.
If you don’t believe Jesus existed, most archeologists will laugh. Just look at first century writings.
Jesus affirmed the apostles writings (aka the new testament) in John 17. Jesus also said that the “scipture cannot be broken” (aka the old testament).
If you want the truth, do research, but the again… this is graphjam. Most people will just go on with whatever opinion they already had.
Oh, I get it – the bible is true because… wait for it… the bible says so. That’s logical.
Would be so much easier if religious people could just be honest to themselves about why they believe what they believe. It’s becuase of their upbringing ofc(well in 90% or more of the cases it is) Can any religious person honestly say they would believe the same thing had they grown up in a completely different environment with no contact with their current religion? No ofc they can’t. It’s all about your environment.
Personally i would think that if there was a god(as in a any of the religions) that god would make itself known to all of mankind. Why would a god make itself known to only a small fraction of the world, demand they spread the belief and condemn anyone not believeing when there is infact no chance everyone could get to know about it?
And why would it demand that people believe in the words of other people and some seriously dubious book/books when each bloody religion in the world has just as much proof for their religion as the next(meaning no proof at all).
Can a christian tell me why i should believe more in the bible then any other religious scripture or vice versa? None of the religions can disprove eachother or prove it’s own religion to be correct, therefor i choose to believe in none of them and try to do my best to live a good life and be good to other people anyway and if i should be wrong and one of the gods actually exists i would hope i would be judged by how i have lived and not what i’ve prayed to.
If you follow islam it is spread by the people but if you had not heard about islam at all which would mean you have no communication nowdays then you are treated as a muslim because you never heard of it and have not heard its teachings,but if you had heard about it then you havent learnt about what it is and havent converted then your kinda doomed
Nice one
Successful troll is successful.
i approve of your use of the “x y is x meme”
This should have been made into a pie chart; Its labeling parts of a whole.
unless the two categories share components, and there is content left out of this chart.
I’m an atheist. I don’t think it’s at all “stuck up” of me to think that I’m smarter than you are. I’m not saying that because I’m an atheist and you are (apparently) a believer in gods, but rather because (a) I’m smarter than most people are, and (b) your rather whiny and bigoted post doesn’t make you sound particularly smart.
Are we to pretend not to notice how things really are? Should we pretend that we’re not smarter than other people even when it’s pretty obvious that we are? I’m not interested in that kind of “PC” nonsense.
HAHAHA hilarious!
*cue the angry christians*
Repent NOW and turn from your sinful ways before it is too late. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. If you have read this far, listen to this – You will recall these words you’ve read here one day in your future. I guarantee it. If you have not heeded these words you will look back in anger and profound remorse because you did not believe. Think carefully before you act. I am a graduate of college – summa cum laude graduate – at 47 yrs old when only four short years ago I was living under a bridge, a hopeless addict and alcoholic. I swallowed my pride and asked Jesus to help me…now I am graduating college with a 4.0 GPA in May. Miraculous? Yes. Because of Jesus? YES! Think carefully, my friend.
Or maybe it was just your own free will and determination that resolved your issues? Why is it so hard to believe that people are in charge of their own lives? There isn’t any type of all powerful being that is handing you what you ask for. You have no one else to thank for what you have but yourself. Just like someone who has nothing has no one else to blame but themselves.
LOL YOU DON’T KNOW WHO GEORGE CARLIN (is) WAS?!
RIP GC
Why would he let us suffer? HE moves at his own pace, lets us suffer, then condemns the rest of us nonbelievers to hell.
Oh please. This discussion is pointless – we all know that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the one true deity responsible for the universe.
.
Oh, and all those who naively think that they can sway religious people with reason: NO CHANCE.
I would like to point out that the whole Bible is the word of God. What is not quotations is God inspired.
Yes, I know being Christian is unpopular.
I would like to point out that the whole Bible is the word of superstitious men. What is not fictional quotations is also fictional.
Yes, I know being right is unpopular.
*fixed* (except for the error in grammar)
“I would like to point out that the whole Bible is the word of superstitious men. What is not fictional quotations is also fictional.
Yes, I know being right is unpopular.”
-NoOneInteresting
what you state at first is valid just like how what tink said was valid. but then when you get to “Yes, I know being right is unpopular.” your just being a jerk >.>
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I
have learned a great deal from your post and try to share that knowledge
with as many people as I can.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other
specific laws and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I’m pretty sure she’s still a virgin
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how
do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? – Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Talk amongst yourselves.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA on this whole page, out of all these posts, this one is the most beautiful, I could cry.
Actually I *CAN* answer that very similar argument stated almost word for word from an episode from west wing
All the refrences you used came from Leviticus which was the *old* law given to the Israelites. In Old Testament times everyone had to remain “pure” and follow all the rules and not sin or else they had to offer sacrifices in order to be considered pure again in the eyes of God.
When Jesus died he became the ultimate sacrifice (and he had authority to change God’s law because he WAS God.) It was no longer necessary to provide sacrifices because Jesus already did it for us. Many of the rules about remaining pure and disposing of impure no longer mattered because no matter what we do we can be pure again through Jesus.
One specific example: many of the “purity” laws were made for safety! Think about it. There were several they were out in the middle of nowhere for 40 years with no hospitals or medical supplies. They were not to eat or touch certain foods to avoid getting sick. If one person got some nasty food-borne illness it would have started a plague instantly. Jesus changed this law when he said “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”) Mark 7:18-19
The character in West Wing didn’t look at the bible as a WHOLE instead he just used a few quotes out of the most controversial and misunderstood sections. It would be like looking at the history of the constitution and saying “look it says alcohol is illegal but I can still buy a bottle of Champaign. Therefore you can’t trust the constitution” without bothering to mention the fact that the 18th amendment was legally changed 13 years later.
Please forgive the weirdly worded 2nd line of paragraph 4
I think this could have been more accurate and less controversial if the two options were titled something like ‘Things the Bible Actually Teaches’ and ‘Things People Have Twisted Biblical Teaching Into’.
It’s amazing how many people think things like ‘God helps those who help themselves’, ‘Money is the root of all evil’, and ‘The road to hell is paved in good intentions’ are Biblical concepts, specifically or otherwise inferred.
It’s also beyond my comprehension, especially as a Biblical Christian, to see how anyone can have attitudes or actions such as blatant racism or discrimination, physically attacking anyone/thing (i.e. at abortion clinics), and this type of thing, in the name of ‘religion’.
Without going overly into the myriad of comments made so far, I would say that the discussion has pretty much covered all bases as far as presentations both for and against the Christian Faith as a whole. I would say that the one Internet Constant holds true – there is an inverse proportion that exists between length of discussion comments and amount of people who have an opinion that will not be swayed. The majority of people here are presenting 3-6 sentences, and the majority of people here have a 1 percent chance or less of changing their minds on anything at all based on the discussion here.
I see people going with the historical argument, people attempting the logical arguments, people taking Biblical stories out of context, people threatening people with damnation, people making assumptions about Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, and other religions alike – seems about right for an open universal forum such as Graph Jam.
Just to let you know, for those who are pointing out the amount of people who believe what they believe about God based on upbringing and environment – I was raised Catholic, left church when I was no longer forced to go at age 13, heard the Gospel of Christ presented when i was 15 and accepted Jesus as my Savior at that point, have done a LOT of stupid things in the following 13 and a half years, and still feel loved and blessed by God, have an intimate relationship with Jesus the Son, and am filled with the Holy Spirit.
I’d also like to point out some truths that Jesus emphasized, namely to love God, and love others, especially those in needs, without overly worrying about the fleeting things of this world. I find myself most content with life when I focus on these things.
I’d also like to share a quote I heard several years ago in regards to projecting God onto others:
‘Try not to blame the Father on how His children sometimes act — we’re all still growing up.’
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. –as quoted from above–these are things that men do, not God. He gave you the will to choose wheather to mess up your own life or others. God does not interfere with what men choose to do so blaming God for messing it up, your looking at the wrong person. He is also not going to end your life or others because you ask him too..you can choose to take your life or the life of another..again this is your choice. Disease and death are the only two really that I see that you can credit partially to God…but really that would be Adam and Eve, because those are direct punishments due to origanal sin. It really doesn’t matter if you believe me that God exists, but you can’t deny that man plays a part in his own self destruction.
Dear Athiests,
I’m sorry you had a bad childhood, and your mean auntie spanked you with the Bible or whatever it was put you in this state. That really sucks.
But please realize, just because you had a bad experience doesn’t give you the right to declare faith a bad thing for all time for all people. Think about it – It would be like if you ate bad shrimp, got sick, and then decided no one in the world should eat shrimp anywhere ever again.
And you folk who insist on what you call “proof” are missing the whole point.
Bottom line? Those of us who believe in God are going to go right on believing, no matter how bad it puts your panties in a bunch. Deal.
“It would be like if you ate bad shrimp, got sick, and then decided no one in the world should eat shrimp anywhere ever again.”
You mean like…
Leviticus 11:9-12
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
Deuteronomy 14:9-10
9 These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10 And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
Did Jesus abolish the Law or not?
Matthew 5:17 and Ephesians 2:14-15
No. (Matt. 5:17), “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.”
Yes. (Eph. 2:14-15), “For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.”
In Matthew 5:17 Jesus is speaking about the Old Testament principles and authority of rule and revelation. When Jesus said that He came to fulfill the law, He came to establish it and demonstrate how it pointed to Him and how He would live it perfectly.
In Eph. 2:14-15, Paul is speaking about how the gentiles who were called the uncircumcision (v. 11), were separated from Christ (v. 12), but have now been brought near (to God) by the blood of Christ (v. 13). Jesus removed the requirement of having to follow the Law in order to please God, established justification by faith, and thereby united both Jew and Gentile into one group in Christ. This is when Paul says in verse 15 that he abolished in his flesh the enmity which is the law of commandments in ordinances. The Law was that which separated Jew from Gentile and since it has been fulfilled in Christ, it is no longer something that would separate Jew and Gentile.
—
“Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’” Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?” He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.” “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’” — Matthew 15:10-20.
Dear Christians,
I’m sorry you had a lonely and isolated childhood, and your mean auntie told you that you would go to hell for eternal torture if you didn’t say your prayers at bedtime or whatever put you in that state. That really sucks.
But please realize, just because you had a bad experience doesn’t give you the right to declare faith a good thing for all time for all people. Think about it – It would be like if you ate bad shrimp, got sick, and then decided no one in the world should eat shrimp anywhere ever again.
And you folk who insist on what you call “faith” are missing the whole point.
Bottom line? Those of us who don’t believe in God are going to go right on not believing, no matter how bad it puts your panties in a bunch. Deal.
Lol, as a christian I find it amusing how other christians ‘defend their faith’; sometimes a bad example of how a christian should behave.
(And to be ontopic for 1 sec…I thought the graph has certainly a point and we (the christians) shouldn’t follow everything blindly.)
But I was just wondering (so not a statement as my opinion), what do you think would happen if God (imagine if he existed..) made his presence aware to everybody? Would heal the sick, stop wars, stop natural disasters (for the people that thing that is proof God does not exist)?
That might go fine at first, the world would be a happy place. But I think that after a while we would complain. Humans would see God as a ruler that takes away our free will (we HAVE to act like christians and we KNOW we have to because we would know he existed, and we would know the consequences if we did not).
We would see God as a cruel and forceful ruler and eventually we would rebel (to no avail most likely).
In short, it would not work. We would not accept it. Besides, we would become spoiled arrogant brats. ^^
I am not saying that his ‘strategy’ of being active among the christians and not that active (at least..much less) among the non christians is a good/better idea. It is just likely that a God whom would actively work in a world with people that haven’t chosen him out of free will.
I think that’s why he (once again..IF he existed) wants everybody to choose for him, so that when he comes back. He’ll rule in a world where people have chosen for him out of free will.
I am not saying that what all I have said is true (I wouldn’t daaare xD), just my thoughts. Oyeah, forgive my english. Not a native english speaker =)
Thank you for being a mature human being about this. You are the proper example of a Christian. The key to religion is remembering that no one KNOWS anything and as you pointed out, you can’t believe anything blindly. There’s no way that every word of the bible is true. It’s not possible for it to pass through the hands of men over and over through many translations and not have things changed. Everyone needs to find their own faith and respect the choices of others because not a single one of us KNOWS for sure.
Nice one Passerby.
blasphemous, but true
lol… 450+ comments and all it amounts to is “NO U!”
Xians think the Bible is fact. Non-Xians think they are wrong. There is no point trying to communicate with people you can never agree with fundamentally.
Even though people are entitled to their opinion, I don’t think it’s necessary to have this graph. I am a Christian, but the fact that I’m a Christian isn’t the only driving factor in why I don’t like this graph, it’s pure hate. This site is for humor, clean, fun humor. I wouldn’t differentiate between a graph about the Torah, Koran, Bible, whatever. What matters is that whoever made this didn’t have humor in mind, this person wanted to rile people up, and guess what, it worked. It’s not a very compelling argument for Atheism when unbiased arguments like this come up. Can’t this be taken down? Something as hurtful as this graph doesn’t belong on a site based around humor.
I dunno. I lol’d so apparently it’s funny. You might notice that pretty much every graph has a group of people who claim it’s not funny. You know what I think is not funny? People who take things too seriously and can’t just ignore things they don’t like and walk away. Instead they ask for everyone to be deprived of the choice to either like or dislike something. That’s what I don’t think is funny.
If you don’t like it, don’t look at it, but don’t ask that it be taken down. That’s a sissy thing to do.
There’s a difference between not funny and offensive. Like I said, people are entitled to their own opinion. But when you say that I shouldn’t ask for it to be taken down because others who have no faith find it hilarious? It’s kind of like watching someone get smacked around, it’s funny on your end, but not for that dude and his friends. So you ask me to look away, but why should I have to look away? This is a humor site, there shouldn’t be anything on here that would make anyone want to “walk away.” I don’t know your story, but you’re most likely an atheist, that’s fine, I don’t mind, but please practice some sensitivity.
Yeah, how dare anyone draw attention to the authorship of the bible… it’s basically a hate crime *rolls eyes*
Grow a thicker skin.
Hmm…75% is what other people made up?
The bible was written over a period of 2,000 years. It was written by over 40 people (ranging from kings, physicians, tax collectors, farmers, shepherds and many ohers)
You think that these completely diverse people were able to put together a complete NEVER CONTRADICTING, completely cohesive document by making it up?
Maybe you would prefer one paper written by one man based on a few years alone on an island?
Let us not forget all the gospels that didn’t even make it to the bible because some dude, or group of dudes – however you want to “remember” it – decided they didn’t like the story. Dudes, I might remind you, who were not there for any of the story. The Gnostic Gospels paint a different picture.
Actually that’s the whole point! Most were there, several knew those who were there and some were not, but all their stories LINE UP! They all make sense. (and both Paul and John (who as far as I know never met) in their writings address the Gnostic faith and argue similar points. John was Jesus’ disciple and Paul never met him yet they say the same things in that area.
Over 40 people? Try over thousands of people picking and choosing what stories go into the Torah/Bible/Koran over a period of 4000 years (the “Old” testament was written 2000 years before Jesus was supposedly born, which was 2000 years ago, therefore 4000). Not only that, the the original texts can be translated in such a way that can be worded to make the priests control their followers? The King James Bible was written about 400 years ago, and even more versions after that…which one is the true one? Is there a true one? It is impossible to say at this point: it has literally become lost in translation.
> You think that these completely diverse people were able to put together a complete NEVER CONTRADICTING, completely cohesive document by making it up?
Anyone who believes that the bible never contradicts itself obviously hasn’t read it much.
I have read the bible cover to cover. Have you?
Cover to cover? Only once, and I didn’t get much from it. In the years that I was a fundamentalist christian I read the bible many times over, but intensive study of individual books gave me a much better understanding of the whole than just sitting down and reading it from genesis to revelations.
At any rate, volumes have been written on the contradictions in the bible, by christians and non-christians alike; do you really presume to state unequivocally that you’re smarter than all the great theologians who have grappled with this topic?
You say that like you’re proud of it. Isn’t pride a sin?
Isn’t it your duty to humbly read your bible every day?
I have read the bible cover to cover multiple times.
And I honestly doubt that you read your bible because you stated that it never contradicts itself. I honestly couldn’t tell if that first comment you made was sarcastic or not, but knew it wasn’t as I read more.
Thou shalt not bear false witness.
I think you should either walk in Jesus’ footsteps and do what the bible tells you to literally or give up your religion, because nitpicking at what you think the bible says and what it actually says doesn’t seem like God’s intentions to me.
This graph is an epic win IMO.
Any time you piss off religious freaks with the holier than thou attitude is a major win for me.
–
Do another graph like this. LOL
As many people already pointed out, the numbers are off, but you got balls dude. I salute you.
how can god not exist?
I can imagine in 300-400 years that we as humans will create a AI so advance that it is just at intelligent as we are now, maybe more so.
with this AI we can create universes ,be it virtually at first, then in a more real way later on. I would love to take a Creating a Universe 460 as a class ^.^
we know what we think god is but we don’t know the enviroment he lives in. i mean say for instance I take this class Creating a Universe, I would make my own universe and i would be its one God as all the other students would have their universes to be the one God. I could rant about this for awhile its a very fun twist to discuss
I hope that give you guys some fun insight or maybe just the ability to poke fun at me >.>
Did you hear about the scientists who decided they no longer needed God?
They elected one of their number to go and tell him. The scientist walks up to God and says “we have decided we don’t need you anymore. We can clone! We know how to create life. Look at all the things we can do” God looked down on him and said. “well you have obviously thought about this but how about we try something? We will have a man making contest”
The scientist says “Sure! No problem” God reaches down and grabs a handful of dirt. The scientist reaches down and grabs a handful of dirt and God says. “No No. You go get your own dirt”
Wow, how did they get Mr Invisible to talk to them?
Did you think this up yourself, or did you copy and paste this from some email you got from your friend?
Your story fails from the start, by the way. Most scientists don’t talk to or even believe in God, so this conversation would never exist in the first place. If a scientist managed to discover how to talk to God and get him to talk back, that would be the most important scientific breakthrough of human history.
And why does the scientist reach for dirt for the man making contest? Human beings are made from cells, not dirt; this is a fact. And we can create life without cloning…its called sex.
actually smartz alot of scientists believe in god ^.^ its bad to assume just because their a scientist they must not believe in god. Also dirt and cells are both a bio material so if you where the creator of this universe you would easily be able to convert one to the other.
also poke it would not be the scientists who create life in a sense it would be the engineers, additionally just like god we would not be able to create man but something in our own image. just like how we are not like god but was created in his image.
I choose the latter option, since you will accept it.
1) If a person believes God does not exists, the burden of proof lies in the God-believer to prove that God does exist, not the other way around. At the present moment, we have no physical proof a supernatural, omnipotent being ever existed…the Bible/Torah/Koran can not be used because it was told by and written by man over 4000 years ago, which means it is not viable to be presented as evidence.
2) If God is all-powerful, why would he need to reside in an “environment”?
3) If you create a universe and claim to be its God, and assuming you do believe in God, isn’t that breaking the commandment by worshiping other Gods, in this case, yourself? Anyways, simulation video games kind of gives you the ability to be God-like, so you can practice on those, if you want.
No I admit I didn’t make it up. I heard it from a friend. Does that change my point? It’s an analogy. Really you can create life? Out of nothing? You can go into a completely empty room and create life without the use of anyone or anything? Wow you gotta show my how to do that sometime.
1) Oh yeah but your human evidence can prove the absence of God? It’s not a burden of proof issue actually because it will never be proven one way OR the other to everyone’s satisfaction. Faith is a personal choice not a competition. It’s not like whoever gets the most votes wins. It’s an evaluation of if you are going to choose to believe the truth. If you decide “I will not believe the bible (even though I haven’t read it) until I have 100% proof that God exists” then that is your choice. However I think that only looking at one side of an issue with out getting the facts of the others side is pretty narrow minded and not very logical.
2) he doesn’t.
3) again Please feel free to let me know the next time you walk into a room with absolutely nothing and create an entire universe. (which I might add a slightly off topic point that we only understand a small fraction of the universe we live in I might try and understand every tiny detail of our current universe before you start creating another one
Graphjams is for humor. Religious takes do not go here, whether they’re smacking Islam or Buddhism or atheism. Doesn’t matter. Be entertaining, graphers; this isn’t a pep rally.
I don’t need blind faith in some deity, religiously or otherwise, or to worship one to live a good and peaceful life. If the world had no religion at all, I guarantee most international violence wouldn’t have ever happened, especially from the Middle East whose reason for “jihad” (holy war) is religion-based.
Anyone that needs religion to live a good life is among the most gullible people in the world.
I think Jesus already saw this on the Pope’s twitter (tweeted? twitter?), HOWEVER… i’ll email it again for hic ups and giggles. THANK GOD FOR HATERS!
I always find it funny when I come across religious arguments/debates.
Christians: You’ll never convince an Athiest that God exists, no matter how much you quote the Bible. They don’t believe in the Bible.
Athiests: You will never convince a Christian that God DOESN’T exist, no matter how logically you present your information. Religion isn’t based on logic. It’s based on faith.
I am neither Athiest nor religious; nor would I say I’m agnostic. The way I see it, each person has their own path…whether it leads to a god or not. Live and let live.
*Applause*
Way to look both sides on the argument. Well said.
Well, *they* started it…
Word
Whether you guys read this or not, I just want ALL of you to know that I am very, extremely sorry! I’ve been feeling very guilty about what I have said on here, and I am genuinely sorry with all of my heart. I didn’t mean any harm (althought it seemed to have come across that way) and I am truly sorry to all the people I have caused anger or upset.
.
Now I wish you can accept my apology, and we can stop trying to prove which religion is “right.” In fact, there is no such thing as a “right” religion! Religions are just what you wish to believe in, and I have my faith in Christianity. But hey!- I have tons of friends and family who are not Christians and we get along great. In fact, my dad’s an atheist and I love him to death!
.
So if you’re not Christian, that’s okay. And if you are Christian, awesome. But I’d like to say sorry and let you know that I am indeed a very smart, kind, and caring person.
you don’t really ‘get’ the bible do you?
I am atheist. My husband will not commit to a title, however, he either believes there is no god or he doesn’t believe in god, I haven’t figured out which, yet. He introduced to me the idea that the stories in the Bible are no different from any mythological story: they have lessons to teach in creative and sometimes intimidating ways. The similarities between Jesus and other “saviors” such as Horus, Krishna and Osiris are too similar to discount and all predate Jesus. There is a serious problem with controlling one’s own life when he surrenders it to people who not only tell him what to believe but how to believe it. I believe it was Dawkins who said that children are not born Christian, but born of Christian parents. How does a child come to believe in Santa Claus? He certainly doesn’t know about SC until he’s introduced to him and taught to believe that he’s being watched 24/7. We all know that story and we all know it’s a story and can all concur it’s tradition. This belief serves as a warning to children that should they misbehave, they will be punished by not receiving gifts. SC is omniscient. Religion is no different. It is a tool by which people are continually oppressed and admonished for being human (notice I’m not just picking on Christians, here). While I would like to say “live and let live”, that statement will be one-sided in my favor: as soon as a religious person finds out I don’t believe in god, I will be told I am going to burn in hell (which is interesting as I don’t believe in hell and will just roll my eyes) or that he or she will pray for me. Were I a Satanist telling a Christian “I will pray for you” the Christian would become incensed. Don’t offer to pray for someone you know to be agnostic or atheist. If you do, you deserve whatever you get as a response. Yeah, I’m all over the place in this post, so I apologize for the lack of consistency.
*applauds intelligent (if slightly inconsistent) post*
Me likey big words.
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Just kidding, however, the big words and vocabulary was just a tiny slice of what was served there! Nice job. I respect whatever you want to believe (or not believe, whatever floats your boat).
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It is kind of queer how people say “I’m going to pray for you,” because I wouldn’t really want somebody praying to, let’s say, Allah (JUST AN EXAMPLE, I AM NOT PICKING ON ISLAM.)
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PS just use these little dot thingys to separate what you want to say
THIS IS SO OFFENSIVE.
Amen!
Should be 0%, 100%.
*sigh* does anyone know if there is a “I found this offensive” button around? Because to be honest, I can’t seem to find one……
Shutup Jesus was the Savior of all and my teacher says its a large possibility youre going to hell if you deny God’s mercy and the Gospels were divinely inspired
That’s your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it.
But it doesn’t have to be the opinion of everyone.
atheist graph.
my opinion. you can’t change it.
Jesus was real and thats the truth dont deney him love him and ask him into your heart now or you will end up in a bad place (hell)
This graph is accurate even if you believe in the bible.
The bible is the word of god as told and written through the vernacular of man.
Jesus didn’t hand out bibles. Bibles were written by men and are therefore as fallible as man is.
Absolutely not! Granted, men did write the Bible, but they wrote it under divine inspiration from God. Last I checked, God doesn’t make mistakes. Have you ever noticed that, 1) There are no typos anywhere in the Bible and 2) That the Bible is the most bestselling book in the world? The Bible also never contradicts itself, though it may seem like it does at times. If you take the time to think about and/or study the so-called contradictions, you will find that they are really not contradictions at all. And Jesus didn’t hand out Bibles because there were no full Bibles in His time. There was only the Torah–the first five books of the Old Testament. There may have been more, but I don’t know for sure, so I won’t say that there was. This graph is NOT accurate if you believe in the Bible. The Bible is the word of God spoken to men, which men wrote down word for word and preserved for centuries. I don’t know of any book that has been preserved for nearly two thousand years (most parts of it far more), and I doubt anyone else does. If the fact that it has survived this long is any indicator, I would say that people though it pretty important. I suggest you do the same.
I assume you mean the bible in Hebrew, because it was originally written in Hebrew. As I don’t read Hebrew, I cannot confirm nor deny your statement. However, I’m fairly certain that the bible has been copied many times, and that the original writings of it don’t still exist in most cases, so the lack of typos doesn’t necessarily mean that divine intervention caused the writers of the bible to write it.
You know what proof there is that Jesus did exist? Thousands of Jews in Biblical times were willing do die for their beliefs. And they wouldn’t do that if they weren’t 100% sure that he had been alive, performed miracles, and risen from the dead.
Well, that’s just one of the most ridiculous arguments for Jesus I’ve ever heard. A bunch of people believe it so it must be true. A bunch of people believed the earth was flat. A bunch of people believed everything revolved around the sun. And we all know that neither of those are true.
I just want to say thanks for this interesting thread about The Bible – GraphJam: Music and Pop Culture in Charts and Graphs. Let us explain them.! Regards, Alexa Beratung
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I can’t believe how long the comments are…
Who can say what we would have turned out like without the bible, for one thing we would be a lot further in the technology side of things without the christians burning our scientists for being heretics, but we probably would be the same in terms of sociality and not killing each other, how do you think we survived before jesus, and jesus didn’t unite the world in peacefulness (and no-one has yet either), in fact now we are probably just as violent as back then, so don’t go implying the bible made peace cause in fact it didn’t, it made more war and killing.
A lot of the “morality” written in The Bible was already in place before The Bible was written and Christianity became a religion. To say we wouldn’t have learned or become respectful or moral individuals without The Bible or Christ’s teachings leans towards an extremely arrogant statement. Frankly, people are just as corrupt OR respectful now as they were before.
Christianity is not the only school of thought that promotes nonviolence… you can be nonviolent without being Christian.
I’ll take False Dichotomies for $300, Alex.
Learn grammar, please.
That is a massive generalization. I respect all religions, unless they are forced on me, and I am agnostic. “Well, seeing pregnant teenagers,tatooed men,and people saying”oh my god” OFFENDS MY RELIGON!!”
The mere fact that you would have others stop doing something simply because it offends you is ridiculous, because you are oppressing others, but if you aren’t allowed to pray, give us a better reason why, look it up somewhere, ask a teacher or something. I have yet to meet ANYONE that says people are “offended” by Christian prayer. Also, the fact that you say “a few are respectable people who leave other religons alone” COMPLETELY invalidates your claim of not discriminating or being a bigot, along with the fact that when you list the other religions in your second paragraph, you say they should ban atheism in capital letters. “God tell me why am i being punished?” I’m not God, but I can tell you that you need to understand the difference between your religion being challenged or persecuted. Please, there are no “atheist ways”. Rest assured, there are good Christians with tattoos, or who have impregnated a young girl, or say “oh my god” in shock. Leave off it, you’re not being persecuted, you’re just being forced to deal with the same sh*t as many other religions are.
Not forced to deal, sorry. You’re not being given special privileges.